Buying a TD5 Clutch.. and then fitting it. Buying is more difficult.

greg0ry said:

Hey all... I had trawled through eBay and thought I'd done the right thing.. I bought the Luk dual mass flywheel and clutch kit for my Discovery TD5 (161000km = 100000miles) only because the DM flywheel is broken.. Someone heard me start the other day and told me my engine mounts were trashed.. not so, he heard the flywheel.

But on eBay i bought from Techniclutch, that's Nationwide Clutch Centre in Blackpool and i really feel like they stitched me up. I think they sell aftermarket as well as OEM and OEM equivalent various iterations of the clutch and flywheel kit including the declared Valeo made one. They don't sell a Luk made one - but say they do. I thought I'd go a safe route and did the Luk one. It arrived today and its a Valeo friction plate, clutch basket and flywheel.. all printed on them made by Valeo. Techniclutch sell the Valeo ones too.. but i paid more for these, it seems just because they come in a yellow (Luk) box. And Techniclutch say they have to sell them only as Luk cos that's who they get them from.

Techniclutch quoted me Trading Standards and such ... but i am sure the spirit of consumer law is that the consumer knows what he is getting and excercises free choice. This is precisely what has not been permitted here; I chose and I've received goods by Others. I really don't mind buying a branded thing and getting it made in a factory of some other label... but i do need to know so that my choices, dependent on price and all other dependencies, are all mine.

If only i'd have known, and now you all know too,... I would have bought the Valeo one, knowing it to be Valeo (incidentally it includes a pilot spigot bearing, not so in the Luk one which Techniclutch told me was a dealer only part! Or is prefitted to the flywheel (its not))- for £100 less. The kit also doesn't include the alignment tool shown on the eBay page, small fry in the big picture but more stuff to get stuck in my craw. And so there's no persuasion to be buying from Techniclutch again. I am waiting their response to my request for a partial refund to reflect the deception, or the nafarious substitution in the Luk box, (a cardboard box for which i was charged £100)!

Then all i need do is fit the doggonedanged thing.

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Stanleysteamer said:

.....can you not get a normal flywheel and clutch, those DMFs are nothing but an expensive pain?

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Stanleysteamer said:

I used to work with a guy who had been "Mr Valeo" for the UK and designed clutches himself. He thought DMFs were a bag of sh1t and would never have one on his vehicles. No one has ever explained to me how a decently designed engine needs one. But I do accept that harmonic dampers have been superseded by these things, although changing them is a lot more of a pain than changing a worn harmonic damper. On a 5 cylinder engine I suppose it is more likely that one is necessary but you would think that with all that engine designers have done to get more power out of smaller and fewer-cylindered engines they would have done something to counteract the problems rather than just stick Elastoplast over them. The more moving parts there are in a machine, the more there is to go wrong. Hey ho!

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Stanleysteamer said:

But I do accept that harmonic dampers have been superseded by these things,

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sierrafery said:

I dont understand what you mean as for me these are two different units each with it's own purpose, the harmonic damper is on one end of the crankshaft, the DMF on the other and the D2 has them both.

The DMF is a quite complex unit and as long as it was engineered to take up to 70 degrees difference between the two plates under heavy load i'm sure it has it's well determined purpose... i felt it's benefits myself so no "Mr Valeo" nor other clutch designer can convince me that it's not efficient, here's it's description from the WSM:

CLUTCH - Td5

33-1-8 DESCRIPTION AND OPERATION

The dual mass flywheel is used to insulate the gearbox from torsional and transient vibrations produced by the engine.

The flywheel comprises primary and secondary flywheels with the drive between the two transferred by a torsional

damper which comprises four coil springs. The springs are located in the inside diameter of the primary flywheel. Two

of the springs are of smaller diameter and fit inside the larger diameter springs.

The primary flywheel locates the ring gear and is attached to the crankshaft flange with eight bolts. The two pairs of

coil springs are located in a recess in the flywheel between two riveted retainers. A roller bearing is pressed onto the

central boss of the primary flywheel and retained with a riveted plate. The bearing provides the mounting for the

secondary flywheel.

The secondary flywheel comprises two parts; an outer flywheel which provides the friction surface for the clutch drive

plate and an inner drive plate which transfers the drive from the primary flywheel, via the coil springs, to the outer

flywheel. The two components of the secondary flywheel are secured to each other with rivets. The inner drive plate

is located between the two pairs of coil springs and can rotate on the ball bearing in either direction against the

combined compression force of the four coil springs. Under high torque loading conditions the secondary flywheel can

rotate in either direction up to 70° in relation to the primary flywheel.

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NPG said:

Odd number of cylinders in reciprocating engines are inherently unbalanced and tend to produce vibrations that cannot be always counterbalanced. Hence why I consider the use of a DMF on a TD5 is a must.

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Stanleysteamer said:

On a 5 cylinder engine I suppose it is more likely that one is necessary

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NPG said:

@Stanleysteamer - BTW, the auto gearbox on your D2 does not have a flywheel of any kind but a torque converter where the fluid spinning inside it and the planetary gear sets act as vibration dampeners. In terms of complexity, the DMF, clutch and manual gearbox put together do not even come close to what's involved in an auto transmission. It's just one of those true marvels of mechanical engineering.

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Stanleysteamer said:

Luckily my D2 is automatic so I don't think it has one,

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