Buying a TD5 Clutch.. and then fitting it. Buying is more difficult.

This site contains affiliate links for which LandyZone may be compensated if you make a purchase.
G

greg0ry

New Member
Posts
2
Location
Canary Islands
Hey all... I had trawled through eBay and thought I'd done the right thing.. I bought the Luk dual mass flywheel and clutch kit for my Discovery TD5 (161000km = 100000miles) only because the DM flywheel is broken.. Someone heard me start the other day and told me my engine mounts were trashed.. not so, he heard the flywheel.

But on eBay i bought from Techniclutch, that's Nationwide Clutch Centre in Blackpool and i really feel like they stitched me up. I think they sell aftermarket as well as OEM and OEM equivalent various iterations of the clutch and flywheel kit including the declared Valeo made one. They don't sell a Luk made one - but say they do. I thought I'd go a safe route and did the Luk one. It arrived today and its a Valeo friction plate, clutch basket and flywheel.. all printed on them made by Valeo. Techniclutch sell the Valeo ones too.. but i paid more for these, it seems just because they come in a yellow (Luk) box. And Techniclutch say they have to sell them only as Luk cos that's who they get them from.

Techniclutch quoted me Trading Standards and such ... but i am sure the spirit of consumer law is that the consumer knows what he is getting and excercises free choice. This is precisely what has not been permitted here; I chose and I've received goods by Others. I really don't mind buying a branded thing and getting it made in a factory of some other label... but i do need to know so that my choices, dependent on price and all other dependencies, are all mine.

If only i'd have known, and now you all know too,... I would have bought the Valeo one, knowing it to be Valeo (incidentally it includes a pilot spigot bearing, not so in the Luk one which Techniclutch told me was a dealer only part! Or is prefitted to the flywheel (its not))- for £100 less. The kit also doesn't include the alignment tool shown on the eBay page, small fry in the big picture but more stuff to get stuck in my craw. And so there's no persuasion to be buying from Techniclutch again. I am waiting their response to my request for a partial refund to reflect the deception, or the nafarious substitution in the Luk box, (a cardboard box for which i was charged £100)!

Then all i need do is fit the doggonedanged thing.
 
I bought an OEM Valeo set which the flywheel was in an LUK box but printed valeo..
The clutch was in a blank cardboard box and also printed valeo.
Very strange set up,I was confused as to why this was,as when I worked in a clutch and gearbox centre they were separate companies and different prices.??
There was a cheaper alternative to the kit I bought,and at first thought I’d been palmed off with that maybe,but saw the prints and calmed down lol
 
As you bought it over the net and not in person, I think you get a "cooling off period" in which you can return the thing, but if it not as described, and just the absence of the clutch alignment tool would mean that, then they are breaking the Trades Descriptions Act, so my bet is you are entitled to your money back or a partial refund. Do a Search on Trades Descriptions Act to see what it tells you.
On another tack, can you not get a normal flywheel and clutch, those DMFs are nothing but an expensive pain?
 
greg0ry said:
Hey all... I had trawled through eBay and thought I'd done the right thing.. I bought the Luk dual mass flywheel and clutch kit for my Discovery TD5 (161000km = 100000miles) only because the DM flywheel is broken.. Someone heard me start the other day and told me my engine mounts were trashed.. not so, he heard the flywheel.

But on eBay i bought from Techniclutch, that's Nationwide Clutch Centre in Blackpool and i really feel like they stitched me up. I think they sell aftermarket as well as OEM and OEM equivalent various iterations of the clutch and flywheel kit including the declared Valeo made one. They don't sell a Luk made one - but say they do. I thought I'd go a safe route and did the Luk one. It arrived today and its a Valeo friction plate, clutch basket and flywheel.. all printed on them made by Valeo. Techniclutch sell the Valeo ones too.. but i paid more for these, it seems just because they come in a yellow (Luk) box. And Techniclutch say they have to sell them only as Luk cos that's who they get them from.

Techniclutch quoted me Trading Standards and such ... but i am sure the spirit of consumer law is that the consumer knows what he is getting and excercises free choice. This is precisely what has not been permitted here; I chose and I've received goods by Others. I really don't mind buying a branded thing and getting it made in a factory of some other label... but i do need to know so that my choices, dependent on price and all other dependencies, are all mine.

If only i'd have known, and now you all know too,... I would have bought the Valeo one, knowing it to be Valeo (incidentally it includes a pilot spigot bearing, not so in the Luk one which Techniclutch told me was a dealer only part! Or is prefitted to the flywheel (its not))- for £100 less. The kit also doesn't include the alignment tool shown on the eBay page, small fry in the big picture but more stuff to get stuck in my craw. And so there's no persuasion to be buying from Techniclutch again. I am waiting their response to my request for a partial refund to reflect the deception, or the nafarious substitution in the Luk box, (a cardboard box for which i was charged £100)!

Then all i need do is fit the doggonedanged thing.
Click to expand...
I take it you never read the reviews of said company before purchasing
 
Stanleysteamer said:
.....can you not get a normal flywheel and clutch, those DMFs are nothing but an expensive pain?
Click to expand...
I strongly discourage everybody to fit solid flywheel to a D2 which is not EXCLUSIVELY for off-road.... at the beginning of my ownership when i knew too little i let myself misled by some forum posts and fitted a so called "HD clutch kit with solid flywheell"... ended up by paying again in less than 2 weeks for a DMF and the cost of labour to my mechanic cos i was fed up with vibrations and noise on road at higher speeds. IMO the DMF on a D2 is compulsory
 
I used to work with a guy who had been "Mr Valeo" for the UK and designed clutches himself. He thought DMFs were a bag of sh1t and would never have one on his vehicles. No one has ever explained to me how a decently designed engine needs one. But I do accept that harmonic dampers have been superseded by these things, although changing them is a lot more of a pain than changing a worn harmonic damper. On a 5 cylinder engine I suppose it is more likely that one is necessary but you would think that with all that engine designers have done to get more power out of smaller and fewer-cylindered engines they would have done something to counteract the problems rather than just stick Elastoplast over them. The more moving parts there are in a machine, the more there is to go wrong. Hey ho!
 
Stanleysteamer said:
I used to work with a guy who had been "Mr Valeo" for the UK and designed clutches himself. He thought DMFs were a bag of sh1t and would never have one on his vehicles. No one has ever explained to me how a decently designed engine needs one. But I do accept that harmonic dampers have been superseded by these things, although changing them is a lot more of a pain than changing a worn harmonic damper. On a 5 cylinder engine I suppose it is more likely that one is necessary but you would think that with all that engine designers have done to get more power out of smaller and fewer-cylindered engines they would have done something to counteract the problems rather than just stick Elastoplast over them. The more moving parts there are in a machine, the more there is to go wrong. Hey ho!
Click to expand...
as torque goes up you need greater damping for engine and box you can only get so many springs in a clutch center, the tdi had to have a modified clutch as it was too harsh and caused a knock at idle, this still occurs when people fit HD clutches, youd need to replace a clutch and dmf once in a vehicles life thats hardly a hardship , and td5 gear boxes suffer less or do greater miles before major issues than the tdi
 
Stanleysteamer said:
But I do accept that harmonic dampers have been superseded by these things,
Click to expand...
I dont understand what you mean as for me these are two different units each with it's own purpose, the harmonic damper is on one end of the crankshaft, the DMF on the other and the D2 has them both.

The DMF is a quite complex unit and as long as it was engineered to take up to 70 degrees difference between the two plates under heavy load i'm sure it has it's well determined purpose... i felt it's benefits myself so no "Mr Valeo" nor other clutch designer can convince me that it's not efficient, here's it's description from the WSM:

CLUTCH - Td5

33-1-8 DESCRIPTION AND OPERATION

The dual mass flywheel is used to insulate the gearbox from torsional and transient vibrations produced by the engine.

The flywheel comprises primary and secondary flywheels with the drive between the two transferred by a torsional

damper which comprises four coil springs. The springs are located in the inside diameter of the primary flywheel. Two

of the springs are of smaller diameter and fit inside the larger diameter springs.

The primary flywheel locates the ring gear and is attached to the crankshaft flange with eight bolts. The two pairs of

coil springs are located in a recess in the flywheel between two riveted retainers. A roller bearing is pressed onto the

central boss of the primary flywheel and retained with a riveted plate. The bearing provides the mounting for the

secondary flywheel.

The secondary flywheel comprises two parts; an outer flywheel which provides the friction surface for the clutch drive

plate and an inner drive plate which transfers the drive from the primary flywheel, via the coil springs, to the outer

flywheel. The two components of the secondary flywheel are secured to each other with rivets. The inner drive plate

is located between the two pairs of coil springs and can rotate on the ball bearing in either direction against the

combined compression force of the four coil springs. Under high torque loading conditions the secondary flywheel can

rotate in either direction up to 70° in relation to the primary flywheel.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NPG
sierrafery said:
I dont understand what you mean as for me these are two different units each with it's own purpose, the harmonic damper is on one end of the crankshaft, the DMF on the other and the D2 has them both.

The DMF is a quite complex unit and as long as it was engineered to take up to 70 degrees difference between the two plates under heavy load i'm sure it has it's well determined purpose... i felt it's benefits myself so no "Mr Valeo" nor other clutch designer can convince me that it's not efficient, here's it's description from the WSM:

CLUTCH - Td5

33-1-8 DESCRIPTION AND OPERATION

The dual mass flywheel is used to insulate the gearbox from torsional and transient vibrations produced by the engine.

The flywheel comprises primary and secondary flywheels with the drive between the two transferred by a torsional

damper which comprises four coil springs. The springs are located in the inside diameter of the primary flywheel. Two

of the springs are of smaller diameter and fit inside the larger diameter springs.

The primary flywheel locates the ring gear and is attached to the crankshaft flange with eight bolts. The two pairs of

coil springs are located in a recess in the flywheel between two riveted retainers. A roller bearing is pressed onto the

central boss of the primary flywheel and retained with a riveted plate. The bearing provides the mounting for the

secondary flywheel.

The secondary flywheel comprises two parts; an outer flywheel which provides the friction surface for the clutch drive

plate and an inner drive plate which transfers the drive from the primary flywheel, via the coil springs, to the outer

flywheel. The two components of the secondary flywheel are secured to each other with rivets. The inner drive plate

is located between the two pairs of coil springs and can rotate on the ball bearing in either direction against the

combined compression force of the four coil springs. Under high torque loading conditions the secondary flywheel can

rotate in either direction up to 70° in relation to the primary flywheel.
Click to expand...
SF, I do understand what it does, I just feel that an engine designer ought to be able to design a way of smoothing out the shocks/vibration transmitted from the crank to the transmission. But then again that would probably mean yet more electronics, which I would hate even more. So, as the problem has got worse, the "go to" solution is the DMF, it has now to be recognised and understood technology. Luckily my D2 is automatic so I don't think it has one, but the D1 was obviously on the border of problems.
No progress in one direction without consequent complication in another. "you get owt for nowt" as my Grandpa used to say! so I stand corrected on the DMF being replaced with a normal flywheel and will shut up about it all!
 
Odd number of cylinders in reciprocating engines are inherently unbalanced and tend to produce vibrations that cannot be always counterbalanced. Hence why I consider the use of a DMF on a TD5 is a must.
 
NPG said:
Odd number of cylinders in reciprocating engines are inherently unbalanced and tend to produce vibrations that cannot be always counterbalanced. Hence why I consider the use of a DMF on a TD5 is a must.
Click to expand...
Stanleysteamer said:
On a 5 cylinder engine I suppose it is more likely that one is necessary
Click to expand...
I quote my own post to show that I agree with you all about the need for the wretched DMF. (Wish life was simpler)
 
  • Like
Reactions: NPG
@Stanleysteamer - BTW, the auto gearbox on your D2 does not have a flywheel of any kind but a torque converter where the fluid spinning inside it and the planetary gear sets act as vibration dampeners. In terms of complexity, the DMF, clutch and manual gearbox put together do not even come close to what's involved in an auto transmission. It's just one of those true marvels of mechanical engineering.
 
NPG said:
@Stanleysteamer - BTW, the auto gearbox on your D2 does not have a flywheel of any kind but a torque converter where the fluid spinning inside it and the planetary gear sets act as vibration dampeners. In terms of complexity, the DMF, clutch and manual gearbox put together do not even come close to what's involved in an auto transmission. It's just one of those true marvels of mechanical engineering.
Click to expand...
Stanleysteamer said:
Luckily my D2 is automatic so I don't think it has one,
Click to expand...
Yet again, I am quoting from one of my previous posts. I don't know whether you meant the auto box or the DMF as being marvels of ME but both are, I suppose. At least an old fashioned slush box is all mechanical and the DMF is mechanical, so no influence from the dreaded electrickery. Believe it or not I was given automatics to drive when I first started working as a technical rep, so did thousands of miles with them. They never played up, unlike the godforsaken thing on the D2 which is always causing threads on this forum nearly always due to the electrickery involved. Too clever for its own good. As for other types of auto and semi-auto box, due to my wife's handicap and her love of weird and wonderful cars we have a copy of a Porsche 356a Speedster with a semi-auto box, imported from the States which has a torque converter, AND a vacuum operated clutch, to work a normal gearbox. she also has a Citroen C4 Pluriel with a flappy paddle semi-auto box. Of course, that is operated by electrickery so which one causes the most problems? The one from 1968 or the one from 2004? You've guessed it, the one from 2004 with all its fancy electrics. We had to change the clutch in it last year €800. The CLUTCH? On a semi-auto box? How can that wear out? Easily, if the electric clutch actuator doesn't do its job properly despite constant resets and attention. The Citroen forums are full of problems with it, as are other car manufacturer's other forums. The flappy paddle gearboxes are another nightmare. So yes, I have experienced quite a lot with these boxes and they all suffer from the "if it ain't bust don't fix it" syndrome. Car designers and engineers got together to "improve" the gearboxes and just made a pile of trouble for us all. Scrapyards are today full of vehicles that are not there through rust or mechanical breakdown but rather electrical problems that cannot be economically fixed. End of rant!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

L
Buying advice
Replies
7
Views
555
new to all this
new to all this
Boxer
Clutch slips........and then it doesn't!
Replies
6
Views
526
Stanleysteamer
Stanleysteamer
R
Valeo HD clutch slipping
Replies
4
Views
586
dag019
dag019
G
Td5 clutch plans
Replies
7
Views
910
guineafowl21
G
O
Clutch pushing rod + plastic clip
Replies
4
Views
448
Steven Sheppard
S
Back
Top