Brown trouser moment!

Fook me that was scary!

Was just coming home and as I was approaching a roundabout at around 50mph I began to slow down (had just lifted off and pretty sure I'd not even touched the brake pedal) and the rear drivers side wheel locked up completely!!!

I managed to keep it pretty straight considering and luckily there were no other cars nearby to worry about. Once I'd stopped I got out and had a look but couldn't see anything obviously wrong (wheel on its side or anything ) but just a mahoosive black tyre mark on the road about 100 yards long. I got back in and tried to move it forwards but could feel the wheel still locked. Thought I better move it to the very edge of the road so started dragging it and it freed off As I was only a mile from home I limped back carefully at 25 mph (it drove fine) and it is now in my garage ready for inspection.

Is there anything obvious that could cause this? All I can think is that something has broken in the rear drum, jiggled its way about, and then jammed the drum and caused the lockup.

Looks like a fun evening ahead

Cheers

Richard

collapsed wheel bearing is my bet

Theres not much too go wrong to be honest, it must be brake or wheel bearing related. Check the wheel bearing for play, and the relese springs on the brake. Cant think of much else.

I agree with the wheel bearing,my discocery did exactly the same ....when mine locked up I ended up in a field entrance !

It's not a hard job to change a bearing...the hard part is getting the remains of the bearing of the stubb axle

i doubt very much that the cause is the same as mine.......but.....and this is a billion to one chance,but true non the less...last year driving home i got the loudest schreeching noise ever emminating from a wheel or hub......and im talking loud!!!!!!!!!
i limped home fearing a collapsed bearing or whatever as it was speed related....passers by up the street were all turning wondering what the racket was lol.......i get home and jacked up the rear end....wheel off.......go to turn the hub and now without a wheel to grab....it was almost solid......after a poke around with a screwdriver(if a hammer/poker wont fix it then it must be an elactrical fault!) i find the cause....a wheelweight....not mine i hasten to add had somehow flicked up off the road and wedged itself between the caliper housing and the disc!!!!!!!! you could sit there for the rest of your life and never be able to throw a weight to land there yet thats what the cause was lol

Cheers for the info guys - I used Busters briliiant guide at http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f41/rear-wheel-bearings-renewed-58851.html to take it all to bits to try find the problem...

It looks like the brakes are all fine, nothing loose, nothing jammed etc and even the shoes are ok... I then dismantled the hub and removed the bearings (what a pain that was!) and they are both fine too

I thought I better get a second opinion as I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination so I chucked all the bits in a bag and have just been to see my local friendly Landy garage.

He says that the brakes are fine and the bearings are too The only thing he can think of is the diff now even though he said he'd have expected both wheels to lock if that was the case.

Anyway, next job is to drain the rear diff oil and see if any bits of metal come out

Grrrrr...

Weird...

Is it possible, as these are drum brakes that they are twin leading shoe, which are designed to self apply somewhat and that the shoes / cylinder were sticking.

I think if your diff locked up it's a bit unlikely that it would free itself off again. These are big precision gears sitting in a puddle of oil, I'd expect a big crunch if something jammed them and for both wheels to lock. As you were approaching the roundabout the crown wheel and both drive shafts were all rotating at the same speed until it locked.

Your local Landy garage is not going to be able to diagnose a sticking brake cylinder from a bag of bits.

Just a thought.

Good luck.

On the other hand have you read the thread "Three Probalems at Once"

Woods767 got his hands full there.

iff the input bearing to the diff siezed this could well result in one wheel turning normally and one turning backwards.

Investigate that.

For a drum brake to lock that solid then something is up, and im sure you would have seen something not right. I've known drum brakes to throw an entire shoe off before and still drive, just be a bit stiffer.

boydy1989 said:

iff the input bearing to the diff siezed this could well result in one wheel turning normally and one turning backwards.

Investigate that.

For a drum brake to lock that solid then something is up, and im sure you would have seen something not right. I've known drum brakes to throw an entire shoe off before and still drive, just be a bit stiffer.

Click to expand...

Think you're probably right Boydy. But surely it would have sounded rough before locking, from reading a few threads here seems like it's the wading without checking the oil after that sets the pinion bearings on a path to destruction. That and no oil!

did it 2 my dad in his series with NO warning, diff input bearing overheated and instantly grabbed the shaft. Once it was a bit cooler it moved ok ish again.

Thanks for the extra info, everything does seem to be pointing to the problem being the diff then I had another quick look over the brakes last night and they really do seem fine and as I said before the bearing are all good too. There's nothing else it can really be is there...

Unless I find and fix the problem (I was really hoping that when I took the brake drum off lots of bits of brakes would drop out) then I'll be worried about it happening again and next time I may not be so lucky. I wouldn't have liked it to have happened on the motorway or even worse mid corner

Think I just have to bite the bullet and find a replacement diff now...

Cheers

Richard

I would take out the diff to make sure its that before spending out on a diff Jai

what age/how many splines?

Take it out first, they arnt all that complicated.

boydy1989 said:

what age/how many splines?

Take it out first, they arnt all that complicated.

Click to expand...

It's a 90 from 1989 which I believe is a 10 spline type diff from what I've read.

Is there a nice idiots guide to removing the rear diff online anywhere? I had a look and couldn't find one. I've never done one before so don't want to balls it up! :doh:

Cheers

Richard

Did you drain the diff oil? I'd have thought it astonishingly unlikely that such a problem could occur within the unit and then 'fix' itself AND not produce shrapnel in the oil or any subsequent evidence of a problem.

I'd be leaning towards Occam's Razor myself. The simplest solution is probably the right one and in this case I'd honestly be wondering if it wasn't just a bit of road detritus (bolt, stone, etc.) that got temporarily jammed in somewhere.

I'd certainly second the other comments that you should make absolutely sure there's a problem with the diff or related components before replacing.

Jon

If the pinion bearings siezed up I would expect there to be some oil leakage around the seal near the propshaft and for the shaft to be loose, given that it freed itself off afterwards. Take a look at that 3 probs at once thread. If the pinion bearings and seals are all good, and there is no water in the bottom of the diff then maybe it could be a freak jam.

Do you take it wading much?

OK - a bit of an update for you that makes it even more unclear!

I've just drained the rear diff oil and it is fine. I only put new diff oil in a month ago, have only been in any water once since then and that was only half way up the wheels - I have axle breathers anyway which seem to work as the oil is just as good as it was when it went in. More importantly I've had a poke around inside and there aren't any bits of cogs/metal at all - everything seems fine...

I'm completely confused now as to what could have caused it and worried about just putting everything back together again in case it happens again

Richard

Right I would.

Take off the [ropshaft and jack up the rear wheels off the deck on axle stands nice and safe!

Rotate the input flange of the diff to feel for any play/roughness/or anything not right. Right then I would lock one brake drum and do the exact same checks. then release the drum and do the opposite drum. If that checks out ok I would almost but not quite discount the diff from being faulty.

Next check both wheel bearings. Then check both brakes for damage to the shoes like score marks or deep cuts in the wear material/drum. It has been known for the material to come adrift, lock a wheel and then sit back in to its place. Check all the rivits around the shoes. Check that a rivit hasnt fallen out and jammed in making the brake lock up (creating deep score marks) (I doubt it very much tho even if one did fall out). Pay very close attention to parts and wear patterns.

Other than that strip it all down clean everything assemble as per it should be. Then I would probably take the diff out for inspection just to ease my mind if that checks out ok then drive with great care and mabe check the fronts just in case the fronts locked and it felt like the rears. Jai