Braking Help

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Bryguitar

Member
Posts
38
Location
North East
Hi,

I have a series 3 with a perkins 4203 engine just wondering can anyone help me out on how do get my servo brakes working with that engine?

Also anyone know of any sites or anything that sells parts for the 4203.

Thanks
 
Ford Transit 2.5 Di engines have a vacuum pump on the back of the alternator - perhaps one of those could be made to fit. It could be a bit tricky though because they need oil supply and return pipes plumbing in.
 
Thanks for replying guys :) sorry took me ages on getting bak been away :p

Does the Peugeot Pump need oil supply?
As im thinking of fitting alternator with pump on the back but having problems figuring where to get the oil feed back to engine.
 
i'm sure perkins 4203's have built in vac pumps. its either above or below the fuel pump, driven from the timing gears of the engine.

i'll take the camera out with me tomorrow an get some pic's as i have two of the lumps. they also have loads of external oil pipes, i'm sure you'd be able to get a T off one of them if you didnt have a vac pump already fitted.
 
Hmm - I've had a few 4203 engined LR's and I can honestly say I can't remeber the servo set up - I don't think that any of them went fast enough for the brakes to be an issue.

As for vacuum pumps very few 4203s are likely to have them as most of these engines came out of stationary generators and forklifts - neither of which have much call for brake servos. You can tell if it is a stationary engine because the cranks weren't counterweighted and your head will hit the rooflining that bit harder at idle....

Seriously tho' - good thoughts about modifying a Ford Di alternator, the only alternative I can offer is to modify an inlet manifold vacuum butterfly assembly from a series III 21/4 diesel and tap the inlet behind it so that the servo charges on over run (same as in the LR engine setup). Main problem with this is that 4203s sit fairly tall and the inlet manifod points straight up which means you'll run short of space.

The other alternative is to fit 6cyl or stage 1 backplates and drums, sod the servo and build up your leg muscles!

PS my father in law worked for Perkins for 40 years - I'll ask him if he has any suggestions
 
Unsprung Hero said:
Hmm - I've had a few 4203 engined LR's and I can honestly say I can't remeber the servo set up - I don't think that any of them went fast enough for the brakes to be an issue.

As for vacuum pumps very few 4203s are likely to have them as most of these engines came out of stationary generators and forklifts - neither of which have much call for brake servos. You can tell if it is a stationary engine because the cranks weren't counterweighted and your head will hit the rooflining that bit harder at idle....

Seriously tho' - good thoughts about modifying a Ford Di alternator, the only alternative I can offer is to modify an inlet manifold vacuum butterfly assembly from a series III 21/4 diesel and tap the inlet behind it so that the servo charges on over run (same as in the LR engine setup). Main problem with this is that 4203s sit fairly tall and the inlet manifod points straight up which means you'll run short of space.

The other alternative is to fit 6cyl or stage 1 backplates and drums, sod the servo and build up your leg muscles!

PS my father in law worked for Perkins for 40 years - I'll ask him if he has any suggestions
Click to expand...

your probably right with the stationary engine point! mine deffinatly have vac pumps though, its below the fuel pump, on the n/s of the engine, looks like a dynamo with no electrical connections and only has a single pipe coming from it. the drive gears for the pump mesh with the engine main timing gears in the front gear housing.

mine connects the brake servo with a piece of fuel hose running over the top of the engine. the brakes were great on that lump, but it was quite hard to move at any speed with the 4203!

..... oh aye, i forgot the camera, sorry!!
 
Last edited:
Unsprung Hero said:
..

Seriously tho' - good thoughts about modifying a Ford Di alternator, the only alternative I can offer is to modify an inlet manifold vacuum butterfly assembly from a series III 21/4 diesel and tap the inlet behind it so that the servo charges on over run (same as in the LR engine setup). /quote]

The problem with this idea is that the engine will probably not be tolerant of the sudden high vacuum created in the whole inlet manifold and cylinders, and you might find it sucks a whole lot of oil down the inlet valve guides or up past the pistons.

It's worth remembering that diesels can be be designed with the knowledge that they will more or less never to go into high vacuum in the inlet side, whereas spark ignitions engines are in high vacuum except when you have your foot hard on the go pedal.

It is always quite a good idea to find and fit a vacuum tank, and fit a vacuum gauge to show that you have decent vacuum level and thus good brakes assistance.

CharlesY
Click to expand...
 
CharlesY - Good points,

Should have remembered to say that the LR set up includes an accumulator tank which sits at the front of the engine bay on the manifold side of the engine.

I should say that the best bet would be to find a vacuum pump like the one on Doobie's lump (assuming that it will fit - you will probably need the front panel as well to judge by Doobie's description) or follow some of the very good advice about fitting a Ford Di pump or similar (which is probably going to be a lot less painful).

As to whether the 21/4 Rover engine was 'designed' to tolerate high vacuum on the inlet side I suspect that it was more a case of sheer luck allowing LR to do a relativley cheap bodge to fit servo brakes that results from the engine being so closely related to the petrol unit. Like almost everything else about pre-TDi LR diesels the vacuum assembly was never very satisfactory but I bet it was cheap to engineer....
 
right, i remembered the camera today! here's the set up on my 4.203, i think the hose is maybe of the garden variety rather than a fuel hose!!

the pump also has an oil supply off the block, i never noticed it before.

P1030418.jpg

vac pump is out of sight below the fuel pump at the bottom of the pic, hose runs round the front of the engine under the thermostat housing.

Vacpumpperkins2.jpg

thats the vac pump with its garden hose.

P1030419.jpg

and the oil supply

P1030422.jpg

driver gears.
 
Nice motors those perky's, I see them quite a bit in boats, I still have a few spares for them.
Like the nice touch of the ucc hydraulic tank oil breather filler cap, my type of thinking dont buy it scrounge it.

Edit: What the heck is that beer can!, I hope thats not a flexible exhaust coupling, cheeky but nice.
 
Well I dont have much room to talk, the exhaust on mi 300tdi is mi old rover 218d exhaust, and I patcjed it where ut'd rusted through, and on top of that, I used 2 box's on the landy, the front box is on mi punto cos I didnt wanna spend 50 quids on a rip off centre scetion.
 
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