brake pedal hard, brakes binding but not stopping - help!

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Uncle Fes

Active Member
Posts
100
Location
Morocco
Hi

My '92 110 had a problem with a spongy pedal and binding brakes.

I changed the master cylinder and swapped axles for the disc brakes on my old Disco 300Tdi.

Now I have a solid pedal, almost no stopping power, and all 4 brakes are smoking hot after 20 miles.

The front discs are the originals as the Defender is LHD, Disco was RHD...

Changed the rear flexi hose and one of the fronts yesterday (all the local factor had in stock - I'll do the other front today).

Now I have a soft pedal with no brakes!

One mechanic reckoned the (new) master cylinder was faulty, stripped it and swapped the seals; no change.

This has defeated 4 mechanics and me - HELP!
 
if you had binding brakes before you need to fix or replace calipers first then bleed brakes as you did achieve good pedal to start with ,disc axle make no difference apart from less travel on pedal, probably wont bleed now as some monkey buggered with master cylinder
 
Hard to understand where you are; you stated both "Now I have a solid pedal..." and "Now I have a soft pedal..." Which is it?

Hard pedal and no brakes is likely stuck caliper pistons or possibly a blocked pipe. Soft pedal could be a number of things, from air in the lines to bad seals in the master.
 
Think we've sorted it. Pedal is now normal and it will lock all four wheels. The test is whether they will bind...

There is (apparently) an adjustment on the amount of 'throw' on the master cylinder...

Time for a test run
 
I thought I'd let you know that the new master cylinder turned out to be faulty; another one cured the problem.

The 'adjustment' was a nut on the end of the rod that goes into the servo - I'm not sure that it's supposed to be anything but tight.
 
Glad you managed to sort that, its a nightmare when something goes wrong with the Brakes

I found a handy guide on the web to braking problems...

Air in the system
This is usually caused by air getting into the brake fluid area, usually from the master cylinder. As the brake pads wear, the caliper pistons ride farther out of the caliper, allowing more fluid to remain in the calipers. Over time this can add up to almost as much fluid as there is in the master cylinder reservoir. If neglected, this will allow the master cylinder to pump some air into the brake lines. Air is very compressable, whereas brake fluid is not, as long as there is a solid stream of brake fluid between the master cylinder piston and the caliper piston, the brake pedal will be nice and firm. If there is air in the system, the pedal will feel spongy and will go down almost all the way to the floor, maybe all the way, depending on how much air is in the system. The standard way of dealing with air in the brake system is to perform an operation called "bleeding the brakes".

Hard brake pedal:
Can be caused by bad power booster, (or loss of vacuum to the booster) seized caliper pistons, seized caliper slides, pinched brake lines, and (rarely) problems with the pedal linkage under the dash. The probable best fix is rebuilt calipers,and new pads.

Brake fade:
I have seen too much of this, having spent 5 years at the bottom of a 13 km hill with 15% grade and continuous switchbacks. Two phenomena contribute to brake fade, one is the fact that the coefficient of friction of most substances gets lower at high temperatures, and that most liquids will boil at some temperature, and that gases compress, while liquids do not. When you use the brakes to decelerate 3,000 or 4,000 or 7-8-15,000 lbs of vehicle, they get hot. Very hot. Under normal circumstances this would be no big deal, the heat that builts up in the pads, rotors, and calipers will slowly radiate back to the air flowing over them as the car continues down the road. But you aren't going down the road, you are back on the brakes, doing more decelerating for the next switchback. Instead of cooling off, your brakes are getting hotter. And hotter, and hotter. . .As the pads and rotors get hotter the friction material of the pads starts to separate. The binding agent starts to boil off from the surface of the pad, plating out on the rotor as a dark, paintlike film...coefficient of friction approaches zero, pedal gets hard, but no braking action.

Brake squeal:
This is a high pitched squealing noise, often heard when you are going slow and are not applying the brakes. If it goes away as you apply the brakes, it could be coming from the brake wear sensors. (Also called 'squealers' by mechanics.) They are small bits of spring steel that are attached to the brake pads in such a way that when the pads are about 75% worn out, the sensors start to rub on the Discs, making the noise. GM invented them, and they are one of the best ideas anyone has ever had in the automotive industry. The sound is so scary that you usually go to a mechanic before any major damage is done to your discs, and before your braking power is compromised, saving you money and maybe your life.

Grinding noise:
Although this is one of the nastiest sounds you will ever hear, it often is the easiest to repair. The first thing you must do is learn what is making the noise. Figure out which wheel it is, then, after safely raising and supporting the car, take off the wheel & tire. Hopefully you will see a simple disc brake system, with a Disc, a caliper, and brake pads. Identify the various components. Gently Disc the brake rotor back and forth until you can identify the source of the noise. Sometimes it is just a small stone, trapped between the brake Disc and the air deflector. The faces of the rotor should be smooth and clean. If you see large scaly rusted places on the friction surfaces of the Discs you should replace them. Most of the time new ones cost less than you would guess. If your pads are worn out(less than 3/16 of an inch of friction material left) and you catch it in time, all you have to do is install new brake pads. If the surface of the disc is damaged, you will have to resurface or replace it.

Brake pedal pulsation:
There are a lot of things that can cause this, from out-of-adjustment wheel bearings to discs that are bent, brake drums that are out-of-round, rusty spots on the disc that have a different surface smoothness. To determine whether the pulsation is coming from the front or the rear wheels, check to see if you can feel the pulsation in the steering wheel when the pedal is pulsating. If you can, the problem is coming from the front wheels.

Brake pull:
Mostly this one comes from either a caliper piston seized or caliper slides seized. This one is dangerous! If your car tries to turn when you apply the brakes you could veer into oncoming traffic. What often happens with this one is this: the caliper piston on one side starts to seize, the other one now applies first, car veers away from bad part. Driver learns to compensate by steering opposite to the pull every time he brakes. A panic situation comes along, driver nails the brakes, steers away from the expected pull, but because the piston was only partially seized, it works just fine when the brakes are applied with vigor. There is no pull this time. It is easy to lose control of your car in situations like this, if your car pulls to one side or the other when you brake, fix it(or get it fixed) before you hurt somebody. Replace calipers and pads and service the caliper slides.

Brake grabbing:
When you just barely touch the brake pedal and one or more wheels locks up and skids. This one most commonly comes from contaminated friction material on one or more brakes.

Pedal goes to the floor:
Gotta be the scariest of them all. If you're lucky, a quick pump on the pedal will get you some braking action. On most newer cars, there will be some braking just before the pedal reaches the floor. Stop driving and check your fluid level. It might just need to be topped up to temporarily get you some braking action to get you home. Regardless, you must find out what caused it and fix it before you drive any further.
 
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