Big Question

Hello All,

This is my first post, I'm Matt from Somerset. Despite my handle / nickname, I don't own a 110. In fact I don't own a Defender at all yet.

Having been looking for several months, I have toyed with pick-ups, hard tops, utility, S/W, double cabs, 110 / 90 etc etc etc. I first wanted a Puma engined model (largely for lower mileage, newer and in the case of a 90, the forward facing rear sets). I now have a 90 TD5, XS or nice County station wagon on my shopping list. In any case my question probably applies to all types of Defender:

Should I go for one with good history and sound body, even if the mileage is high? I know of a converted hard top near me for sale (with upgrades like heated seats, elec windows and screens) that was refurbished / converted by a well known LR specialist in Trowbridge, approaching 3 years ago. I have seen photo's of the light restoration and body / paint is still good now. Chassis also solid, was treated, possibly Wax-oyled or Dinitrol. Mileage however is 161,000 miles, but it has 16 service stamps and has clearly been looked after with oil changes etc. It's a 2006, so 16 stamps is impressive, especially considering Covid hit a lot of service records.

I'm mindful of Turbo's / Intercoolers / injector seals etc at this age. If I can't find any evidence of engine work, is this still a better buy than a lower mileage model with patchy history and showing paint bubbling and surface rust to rear cross member etc. Any other potentially wallet emptying problems such as gearbox, transfer box, diffs etc?

I am a novice with Defenders but have owned several classic cars (mainly Triumph) and I'm aware that they are a labour of love and require considerable TLC and expenditure to keep them going.

Any advice would be most welcome.

Cheers, Matt.

i got 2007 puma 136k on the clock seviced by myself needed a new clutch at 120k mls but apart from fiddly things like a grag rail bush ,light switch,oh i did do swivel jionts as seals had gone i also reseated injectors so i think im on top of it now ive had it 15 yrs on the farm and shooting vehicle in the winter i love it keep th e prop greased when i did the swivels i fitte d new brake discs and callipers but they wernt too bad while i had it stripped

Well, everything's repairable with tools, skills and time. It's a matter of being aware of what the problems are when buying so you know what the upcoming tasks are likely to be and how much they're likely to cost. For example, if you've got a lot of spanners but no welder, then good chassis and bulkhead might be a priority, whereas you can take any bushes, bearings and head gaskets in your stride. Or if you're an accomplished welder but not much of a mechanic you may be less troubled by rust but more keen on a low milage, regularly serviced engine. Look at the machine critically and try and imagine the work it'll need during your ownership and how readily you'll be able to tackle it.

robbie the greatl said:

i got 2007 puma 136k on the clock seviced by myself needed a new clutch at 120k mls but apart from fiddly things like a grag rail bush ,light switch,oh i did do swivel jionts as seals had gone i also reseated injectors so i think im on top of it now ive had it 15 yrs on the farm and shooting vehicle in the winter i love it keep th e prop greased when i did the swivels i fitte d new brake discs and callipers but they wernt too bad while i had it stripped

Click to expand...

Thanks Robbie

Brown said:

Well, everything's repairable with tools, skills and time. It's a matter of being aware of what the problems are when buying so you know what the upcoming tasks are likely to be and how much they're likely to cost. For example, if you've got a lot of spanners but no welder, then good chassis and bulkhead might be a priority, whereas you can take any bushes, bearings and head gaskets in your stride. Or if you're an accomplished welder but not much of a mechanic you may be less troubled by rust but more keen on a low milage, regularly serviced engine. Look at the machine critically and try and imagine the work it'll need during your ownership and how readily you'll be able to tackle it.

Click to expand...

Hi Brown (feels rude calling you that?). Thanks for the reply and of course you are right. Although i can mess about with stuff, full on repairs and replacements would cost me money i.e. I'd be paying someone else sadly! I'm steering towards better service history, than low miles just for the sake of low miles (with perhaps sketchy history). I know mileage can be a little irrelevant, it's as you say, going in eyes wide open, rather than squinting / closing one eye and then hoping for the best. Things like Turbo life - is it generally the life of the engine if well serviced with good oils / fluids? same with gearbox, transfer box etc?

110Matty said:

Hi Brown (feels rude calling you that?). Thanks for the reply and of course you are right. Although i can mess about with stuff, full on repairs and replacements would cost me money i.e. I'd be paying someone else sadly! I'm steering towards better service history, than low miles just for the sake of low miles (with perhaps sketchy history). I know mileage can be a little irrelevant, it's as you say, going in eyes wide open, rather than squinting / closing one eye and then hoping for the best. Things like Turbo life - is it generally the life of the engine if well serviced with good oils / fluids? same with gearbox, transfer box etc?

Click to expand...

Ok then, so you'll be looking for a good all rounder. Yes, with both the TD5 engine and the later Puma, the main thing anyone can do is change the oil and filters regularly. I have a TD5 still going strong after 155,000 miles, and looking at pictures of people's engine rebuilds on here, it seems to be a fairly long lived unit. Even high mileage ones still have the factory honing marks on the cylinder bores and metal on the bearing shells. Turbo life I can't really comment on because I'm still on my original one, which hasn't given any trouble yet. If I were to overhaul the engine I'd probably give it a new one. The Puma engine I'm not familiar with, because I've never had one, but you see a very similar unit in Ford Transits being thrashed at 90mph up and down lane 3 of Britain's motorway network, and some of them even last for a couple of hundred thousand miles doing so, complete with ladders on the roof and a mini digger on a trailer for added resistance. Oil changes and fuel fill-ups typically come with added sand, aggregate and plaster dust too.

I fitted a reconditioned R380 gearbox at around 125,000 miles, as the old one was getting very noisy. The transfer box has had new bearings but it's still on the original gears. I replaced the diff centres because I wanted limited slip ones, but it's still using the original ring and pinion gears.

110Matty said:

Hello All,

This is my first post, I'm Matt from Somerset. Despite my handle / nickname, I don't own a 110. In fact I don't own a Defender at all yet.

Having been looking for several months, I have toyed with pick-ups, hard tops, utility, S/W, double cabs, 110 / 90 etc etc etc. I first wanted a Puma engined model (largely for lower mileage, newer and in the case of a 90, the forward facing rear sets). I now have a 90 TD5, XS or nice County station wagon on my shopping list. In any case my question probably applies to all types of Defender:

Should I go for one with good history and sound body, even if the mileage is high? I know of a converted hard top near me for sale (with upgrades like heated seats, elec windows and screens) that was refurbished / converted by a well known LR specialist in Trowbridge, approaching 3 years ago. I have seen photo's of the light restoration and body / paint is still good now. Chassis also solid, was treated, possibly Wax-oyled or Dinitrol. Mileage however is 161,000 miles, but it has 16 service stamps and has clearly been looked after with oil changes etc. It's a 2006, so 16 stamps is impressive, especially considering Covid hit a lot of service records.

I'm mindful of Turbo's / Intercoolers / injector seals etc at this age. If I can't find any evidence of engine work, is this still a better buy than a lower mileage model with patchy history and showing paint bubbling and surface rust to rear cross member etc. Any other potentially wallet emptying problems such as gearbox, transfer box, diffs etc?

I am a novice with Defenders but have owned several classic cars (mainly Triumph) and I'm aware that they are a labour of love and require considerable TLC and expenditure to keep them going.

Any advice would be most welcome.

Cheers, Matt.

Click to expand...

Not sure I agree with your last paragraph at all.

Don't take this wrong. But you'd probably be way better off buying a Discovery or a Range Rover..... and I'm willing to bet any Defender you buy you'll mod to try and make it more 'car like' then flog it because being a road vehicle is not really what they are designed for.

Always happy to be proven wrong of course. If you don't want a utility based vehicle, nor plan to off road. The Defender is almost certainly the wrong vehicle.

I was going to comment on the thought that 160k is high mileage but then realised you were looking at the more modern electronic engines which I avoid at all costs (TD5 is just about acceptable as is very basic electronic). Because Of this I am well outside of my area of expertise and I do not know if the usual advice of ignore the mileage and buy on condition is relevant and I do not know how the engines last. My last tdi had nearly 400k on the clock with no engine rebuild and was only replaced because it was in a fire (i plan to rebuild and have as a spare). Certainly on the older pre electronic vehicles the condition of everything else was far more important as the engine was cheap and easy to work on. 16 stamps is a good start but it would be worth looking at the MOT history as well (available online) as that will also give you an idea of how well the vehicle was looked after over time.

300bhp/ton said:

Not sure I agree with your last paragraph at all.

Don't take this wrong. But you'd probably be way better off buying a Discovery or a Range Rover..... and I'm willing to bet any Defender you buy you'll mod to try and make it more 'car like' then flog it because being a road vehicle is not really what they are designed for.

Always happy to be proven wrong of course. If you don't want a utility based vehicle, nor plan to off road. The Defender is almost certainly the wrong vehicle.

Click to expand...

No offence taken... previously owned a Discovery, definitely not what i want now.

dag019 said:

I was going to comment on the thought that 160k is high mileage but then realised you were looking at the more modern electronic engines which I avoid at all costs (TD5 is just about acceptable as is very basic electronic). Because Of this I am well outside of my area of expertise and I do not know if the usual advice of ignore the mileage and buy on condition is relevant and I do not know how the engines last. My last tdi had nearly 400k on the clock with no engine rebuild and was only replaced because it was in a fire (i plan to rebuild and have as a spare). Certainly on the older pre electronic vehicles the condition of everything else was far more important as the engine was cheap and easy to work on. 16 stamps is a good start but it would be worth looking at the MOT history as well (available online) as that will also give you an idea of how well the vehicle was looked after over time.

Click to expand...

Many thanks for the reply, i did check the MOT history, it's good to match up the mileage / dates etc, but unfortunately the car sold before I could get to it. I'm definitely leaning towards condition / servicing over mileage, so thanks to you and all the people that had / have encouraging comments to make, much appreciated. The knowledge is with the owners and it saves newbies like me a lot of hassle and potentially a lot of money. Cheers.