B + E Trailer Test

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redhand said:
NO you CAN'T!! If your so sure your right despite all the evidence to the contrary Perhaps you can produce some proof???
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The link you referred to says nothing about MAM of a trailer needing to be under the vehicle's towing capacity, for B+E. I suggest you read the regulations properly, rather than skim through them (you quoted a standardised licence restriction for C1+E) then you'll see that those regulations don't apply in this specific case.

It is a principle of UK law that you can do something, until a law says you can't. There is no law which says you can't tow a trailer with MAM exceeding the vehicle towing capacity, so long as its not loaded beyond the vehicle towing capacity.

The devil is in the details of the wording of the law - you're jumping to assumptions, and many other so called official bodies, etc have also misinterpreted the complex regulations too, so I'm not surprised there's a lack of acceptance on this issue.
 
paul_c said:
The link you referred to says nothing about MAM of a trailer needing to be under the vehicle's towing capacity, for B+E. I suggest you read the regulations properly, rather than skim through them (you quoted a standardised licence restriction for C1+E) then you'll see that those regulations don't apply in this specific case.

It is a principle of UK law that you can do something, until a law says you can't. There is no law which says you can't tow a trailer with MAM exceeding the vehicle towing capacity, so long as its not loaded beyond the vehicle towing capacity.

The devil is in the details of the wording of the law - you're jumping to assumptions, and many other so called official bodies, etc have also misinterpreted the complex regulations too, so I'm not surprised there's a lack of acceptance on this issue.
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Proof?? without it all we have is your interpretations of the law. Everything I have read very clearly states that it is the MAM of the trailer that is applied in Law. You are claiming that this isn't so. but we only have your word against the opinions of lawyers and Corporate bodies So I think you need to prove your the one that's right.
 
What offence is commited if you tow a trailer with MAM above the towing capacity of the vehicle, but unloaded or part-loaded such that the ACTUAL weight is below the towing capacity of the vehicle?
 
paul_c said:
What offence is commited if you tow a trailer with MAM above the towing capacity of the vehicle, but unloaded or part-loaded such that the ACTUAL weight is below the towing capacity of the vehicle?
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It's just the way the law works buddy, MAM is the figure that counts.
 
redhand said:
Proof?? without it all we have is your interpretations of the law. Everything I have read very clearly states that it is the MAM of the trailer that is applied in Law. You are claiming that this isn't so. but we only have your word against the opinions of lawyers and Corporate bodies So I think you need to prove your the one that's right.
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MAM only applies for licensing, not overloading.

For example:

A Land Rover, with towing capacity 3500kg, towing a trailer which weighs 400kg unladen, is plated with a MAM of 2400kg but is in fact overloaded to 2800kg. The plate says the MAM is below the towing capacity of the LR - so its ok? No its not, its overloaded. The offence of overloading is, and MUST BE, for obvious logical reasons, based on the actual weight being carried at the time, not plated weights.
 
paul_c said:
MAM only applies for licensing, not overloading.

For example:

A Land Rover, with towing capacity 3500kg, towing a trailer which weighs 400kg unladen, is plated with a MAM of 2400kg but is in fact overloaded to 2800kg. The plate says the MAM is below the towing capacity of the LR - so its ok? No its not, its overloaded. The offence of overloading is, and MUST BE, for obvious logical reasons, based on the actual weight being carried at the time, not plated weights.
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that's nothing at all to do with the matter in hand. if your licence says that you can tow a trailer with a MAM of 750kg then that is all you can tow (assuming the vehicle is plated to tow that much Ford Ka's can't tow anything and I think the mini is limited to 350kg.)

you can't then tow a trailer with a MAM of 3500kg even if it weighs 750Kg empty.
 
redhand said:
that's nothing at all to do with the matter in hand. if your licence says that you can tow a trailer with a MAM of 750kg then that is all you can tow (assuming the vehicle is plated to tow that much Ford Ka's can't tow anything and I think the mini is limited to 350kg.)

you can't then tow a trailer with a MAM of 3500kg even if it weighs 750Kg empty.
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My licence doesn't say that though - I have B+E, C1+E and a bunch of other stuff.
 
The_Big_P said:
My head hurts!

I passed my test in October '07.

Say I had a standard M reg 300TDI 110. What weight (trailer and load) can I tow legally without having to sit any further tests?
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Take the MAM of the 110
We'll take a figure of 2700kg unladen weight (fook knows what the real figure is.? and a max MAM of 3050Kg (also a guess) Combined MAM of both vehicle and trailer is 4250Kg so that would leave you with a possible Trailer MAM of 1200Kg.
 
redhand said:
Take the MAM of the 110
We'll take a figure of 2700kg unladen weight (fook knows what the real figure is.? and a max MAM of 3050Kg (also a guess) Combined MAM of both vehicle and trailer is 4250Kg so that would leave you with a possible Trailer MAM of 1200Kg.
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So in theory if I had a 110 I could tow a trailer and load weighing 1.2* tonnes legally without having to take any further tests? :)

*Based on your rough calculations.
 
Innocent until proven guilty!!!! There is no law which says you cannot tow a trailer with MAM greater than the tow capacity of the car, so long as its not loaded to over the tow capacity of the car, so long as you're properly licenced to tow that combination. Obviously I can't provide a link to a law that doesn't exist! By all means, if someone can find some law, or case law, or a successful prosecution, post it. The previous links only relate to licensing, and even then don't state its illegal.
 
redhand said:
Take the MAM of the 110
We'll take a figure of 2700kg unladen weight (fook knows what the real figure is.? and a max MAM of 3050Kg (also a guess) Combined MAM of both vehicle and trailer is 4250Kg so that would leave you with a possible Trailer MAM of 1200Kg.
Click to expand...

From DVLA;

"If you passed a car test on or after 1 January 1997 you're limited to vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes maximum authorised mass towing a trailer up to 750kgs, or a vehicle and trailer combination up to 3.5 tonnes MAM providing the MAM of the trailer doesn't exceed the unladen mass of the towing vehicle."

Still can't understand this :eek::confused:
 
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