Auto issues

19eddie82 · Jul 14, 2020

For the past few months my td4 auto seems to be holding on to 4th gear for longer than it should, once the car is hot it seems to almost bang into gear but when this happens the f4 & hdc lights come on and then it wont change out of 4th until i cycle the ignition. If i take it easy i can usually get it to change eventually but only after feathering the accelerator or revving it a few times almost like the clutch is slipping or ive got the clutch dipped (if i had one). Ive changed the gear box oil which smelt really bad and was a dark brownish colour and it seemed to improve gear changes but the banging and slipping in 4th-5th is still there when its hot. ive checked with my scanner and im getting the code p0734 4th gear out of range, next step maybe to check the solenoids but was wondering if anyone has had this code or problem before and could help me out.

cheers

Nodge68 · Jul 14, 2020

Mine started by doing that, so I replaced all the solenoids, then a few months later it started slipping when it should have gone into 4th, now its slipping all the time in 3rd and 4th, and won't go fast enough to select 5th.

I'm replacing the clutch pack, testing it, then selling it and moving on to a manual FL2 which I've just bought.

19eddie82 · Jul 15, 2020

Its not slipping all the time just when it gets hot and when I accelerate hard, It was driven last night for a good 40-50 minutes and as long as I drive conservatively its fine up through the gears to motorway speeds the problem seems to occur more if i accelerate hard so if im over taking for example the revs fly up to 3000rpm and the car wont change gear straight away and when it does its very harsh and the F4 and HDC lights come on.

Nodge68 · Jul 15, 2020

That's very similar to mine. I've also have another fault, where it'll randomly select first at say 25Mph, which it obviously shouldn't do, but I do also have the 4th gear slipping, but only when I give it a boot full of throttle.

I've spent the last 12 months testing wiring and changing solenoids, fluid and such. I'm at the point where I'm sure it's a mechanical problem with the piston or clutch pack, which is why I got a replacement set. Unfortunately at the moment I've not had the time to delve into the gearbox, and now I've got a FL2, I might not even actually fix it, selling it as is.

19eddie82 · Jul 15, 2020

Ive heard of the random gear changes before but mine does non of that. I bought an auto for peace of mind and for ease on long motorway drives with the kids and i didnt want the hassle of changing clutches and cylinders obviously didnt look into auto box problems. worse case scenario ile just replace the whole box but was hoping someone had an idea of what it mite be before i went that far.

Nodge68 · Jul 15, 2020

19eddie82 said:
Ive heard of the random gear changes before

I've not, so any links to that issue would be helpful to me.

19eddie82 said:
I bought an auto for peace of mind and for ease on long motorway drives with the kids and i didnt want the hassle of changing clutches and cylinders obviously didnt look into auto box problems.

And me. I'm no keen on clutch changes myself, and I do prefer to drive an automatic.

19eddie82 said:
worse case scenario I'll just replace the whole box but was hoping someone had an idea of what it mite be before i went that far.

I'll not be doing that, as the cost would exceed the value of the car.

19eddie82 · Jul 15, 2020

Ive seen some auto boxes for around £200 thats about the same for an insginia manual box so Its not too bad.
let me see if I can find the link, im sure it was a 2/4 solenoid.

Nodge68 · Jul 15, 2020

19eddie82 said:
Ive seen some auto boxes for around £200 thats about the same for an insginia manual box so Its not too bad.

That's not a bad price, as long as it works of course.

19eddie82 said:
let me see if I can find the link, im sure it was a 2/4 solenoid.

I changed all the solenoids, and the down change fault disappeared for about 3 months, before it surfaced again, only to be accompanied by the slipping in 4th when using high engine loadings.

Hippo · Jul 16, 2020

@19eddie82
You say the auto oil smelled bad. Did it smell burnt?

Did you follow the correct method to refill the auto with oil then check the oil level with the engine running when at the correct temperature?

When it's flashing F4 it's in limp mode so it will stay in 4th gear to limp to safety. Power cycling the ignition and clearing it until next time... thats what you would eggspect to happen.

19eddie82 · Aug 24, 2020

Sorry it’s been a while but I’ve literally had no time to check this out since my last post.

So today I ran the car so the transmission was up to 87 degrees and check the fluid level which was fine. Then following a guide on you tube I check all the solenoid resistance values when it was hot and cold, when it was cold it was all with in the limits but as the car only plays up when it’s hot I made a note of the hot values also but I have nothin to cross reference them with. Re fitted the two barrel connectors with jubilee clips and cable ties (again as seen on the net) took it for a road test and the car still slips in 4th once it’s warm.

the codes it was originally showing were P0740
P0734
Cleared the codes and only P0734 re-appeared which is 4th gear ratio?

So my question is, am I taking the gearbox out or is there a solenoid that I can check? I’d rather have to take the solenoid valve body off and replace one of them before the box has to come out.

thanks for and help or advice.

Nodge68 · Aug 25, 2020

19eddie82 said:
So my question is, am I taking the gearbox out or is there a solenoid that I can check? I’d rather have to take the solenoid valve body off and replace one of them before the box has to come out.

The solenoids are at the front of the gearbox, under the black tin cover. There are 9 IIRC, all can be removed with or without the valve block.

Hippo · Aug 25, 2020

19eddie82 said:
Sorry it’s been a while but I’ve literally had no time to check this out since my last post.

So today I ran the car so the transmission was up to 87 degrees and check the fluid level which was fine. Then following a guide on you tube I check all the solenoid resistance values when it was hot and cold, when it was cold it was all with in the limits but as the car only plays up when it’s hot I made a note of the hot values also but I have nothin to cross reference them with. Re fitted the two barrel connectors with jubilee clips and cable ties (again as seen on the net) took it for a road test and the car still slips in 4th once it’s warm.

the codes it was originally showing were P0740
P0734
Cleared the codes and only P0734 re-appeared which is 4th gear ratio?

So my question is, am I taking the gearbox out or is there a solenoid that I can check? I’d rather have to take the solenoid valve body off and replace one of them before the box has to come out.

thanks for and help or advice.

What were the hot values?
Was that 87 degrees C or F?

19eddie82 · Aug 25, 2020

Nodge68 said:
The solenoids are at the front of the gearbox, under the black tin cover. There are 9 IIRC, all can be removed with or without the valve block.

I think what Im really trying to say is, is it worth me changing the solenoids or is there any more checks I can do to pin point the fault. What I don’t wanna do is change the full solenoid pack until I’ve exhausted every check to make sure it’s them.

19eddie82 · Aug 25, 2020

Hippo said:
What were the hot values?
Was that 87 degrees C or F?

The temp wasn’t exact but was around 80-90C and the values were
1-2 692
3-4 684
5-6 684
7-8 454
18-9 20.5
18-10 20.5
18-11 20.5
18-12 20.6
18-13 20.5
18-14 20.5
18-15 03.3
18-16 03.5
18-17 15.7
Hopfully this makes sense, I’d love it if somethin jumped out at someone and there’s somethin I’ve overlooked so fingers crossed

Henry_b · Aug 25, 2020

A common misconception is slippage when hot is the same issue as when cold, that isn't the case.
the transmission fluid expands when it heats up it also causes it to become thinner automatic transmissions employ a lot of pressurised components that maintain their pressure through a variety of seals and valves. When those seals start to wear, transmission fluid can escape, lowering the pressure. In cases where a transmission is worn but not completely gone, it may drive fine when the oil is cold and viscous. When that oil heats up and thins out, it can start finding its way out of these worn seals and valves, causing a lack of pressure when applying a clutch

You could try bunging some Lucas transmission fix into it which is a viscous ATF which job is to up the line pressure in the gearbox.

19eddie82 · Aug 25, 2020

Henry_b said:
A common misconception is slippage when hot is the same issue as when cold, that isn't the case.
the transmission fluid expands when it heats up it also causes it to become thinner automatic transmissions employ a lot of pressurised components that maintain their pressure through a variety of seals and valves. When those seals start to wear, transmission fluid can escape, lowering the pressure. In cases where a transmission is worn but not completely gone, it may drive fine when the oil is cold and viscous. When that oil heats up and thins out, it can start finding its way out of these worn seals and valves, causing a lack of pressure when applying a clutch

You could try bunging some Lucas transmission fix into it which is a viscous ATF which job is to up the line pressure in the gearbox.

Yeah I mean that is sort of my question, if all the tests on the valve body that ive done have come back satisfactory where next? I believe there are two seals behind the actual valve body, could these be worn or perished and if so would these give the same symptoms Im experiencing. I dont really wanna just strip the old box out and just throw it away but auto boxes are a bit of a mystery to me so any help or direction is appreciated.

I mite do what you say and stick some lucas oil in it, but its really only a short term fix and id like something abit more permanent

Henry_b · Aug 25, 2020

Check the torque of the valvebody to gearbox bolts, these are very common to come loose and nobody checks 'em!

There is a seal between them and it often leak line pressure if left to go loose enough.

19eddie82 · Aug 25, 2020

Henry_b said:
Check the torque of the valvebody to gearbox bolts, these are very common to come loose and nobody checks 'em!

There is a seal between them and it often leak line pressure if left to go loose enough.

ah ok, so this is the sort of thing i was hoping for it at least gives me some direction to go next. I can probably get hold of a full set of solenoids also dyu think its worth me getting them or does it sound like they are all ok going of the values i posted?
thanks

Henry_b · Aug 25, 2020

19eddie82 said:
ah ok, so this is the sort of thing i was hoping for it at least gives me some direction to go next. I can probably get hold of a full set of solenoids also dyu think its worth me getting them or does it sound like they are all ok going of the values i posted?
thanks

The Auto box on the freelander is prone to solenoid issues, if you're losing line pressure then the Solenoids/valvebody are at fault..

HOWEVER it depends how long it's been slipping, the clutches in these are wafer thin, so when they start slipping it's usually a road to a rebuild.

19eddie82 · Aug 25, 2020

Henry_b said:
The Auto box on the freelander is prone to solenoid issues, if you're losing line pressure then the Solenoids/valvebody are at fault..

HOWEVER it depends how long it's been slipping, the clutches in these are wafer thin, so when they start slipping it's usually a road to a rebuild.

Its probably been doing it for about a year, its only when it gets hot so I pretty much dont use it apart from getting to work an back so it hasnt actually slipped for about a month cause it doesnt get hot enough on my commute. I can get it to slip if I leave it running for 10-20 mins before i leave work

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