auto gearbox diy compushift..geeks only..

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more reading done...

so..i am now thinking that prehaps i will maybe get away with using oe box ecu and oe h gate and loom..

looks like it does not need the becm to work, just uses that to illuminate warning lamps etc...

if i use the engine ecu (i have along with loom) and the gearbox ecu (i have)
connect using prehaps stock box ecu to gearbox but my own loom to engine ecu, (only needs 3 or 4 wires) along with h gate then it may well work..

would need to give a few dummy inputs to gearbox ecu from h gate to get manual control of box, but thats easy..ie it needs to think its in low range for manual..not a problem,,just a gnd signal.etc
only downside is when in manual no torque convertor lock up..but i suppose i dont need that anyway when driving down twisty lanes??

sport and economy manual switches and fuctions should work .only thing becm does I THINK is control h gate warning lamps,gear position lamps etc

not sure on diagnostics yet..

this does however rely upon keeping the stock engine ecu..thats a bummer, but depending upon engine ecu outputs to gearbox ecu may well not be a problem...ITS NOT CANBUS after all..needs engine speed,torque of engine vehicle speed (apparently not essential)

all of above to implement (if correct) a dodle if not time consuming..
thoughts please??
 
WHAT i dont get is how come a info was gained from rave NEW RANGE ROVER but it listed it as 2.5 diesel or 4/ 4.6 using hp22 or 24??shows a pic of l322 but clearly info on p38 as it gives dates 95-99 for non canbus

no wonder i could not find info i needed!
 
finding conflicting info on immobiliser
same rave states up to 99 engine ecu is just 0v or 12v in to control..and also states thats it a baud signal carrying data...

i hope its former or need to use becm as well!

its a 96 engine and electronics...and have been lead to belive by person who uses these in off road toys its just connect up input pin to earth/.12v (cant remenber now)
 
zen said:
more reading done...

so..i am now thinking that prehaps i will maybe get away with using oe box ecu and oe h gate and loom..

looks like it does not need the becm to work, just uses that to illuminate warning lamps etc...

if i use the engine ecu (i have along with loom) and the gearbox ecu (i have)
connect using prehaps stock box ecu to gearbox but my own loom to engine ecu, (only needs 3 or 4 wires) along with h gate then it may well work..

would need to give a few dummy inputs to gearbox ecu from h gate to get manual control of box, but thats easy..ie it needs to think its in low range for manual..not a problem,,just a gnd signal.etc
only downside is when in manual no torque convertor lock up..but i suppose i dont need that anyway when driving down twisty lanes??

sport and economy manual switches and fuctions should work .only thing becm does I THINK is control h gate warning lamps,gear position lamps etc

not sure on diagnostics yet..

this does however rely upon keeping the stock engine ecu..thats a bummer, but depending upon engine ecu outputs to gearbox ecu may well not be a problem...ITS NOT CANBUS after all..needs engine speed,torque of engine vehicle speed (apparently not essential)

all of above to implement (if correct) a dodle if not time consuming..
thoughts please??
Click to expand...

Input from engine ecu via becm: Engine speed 12v square wave.
H gate is only for displaying the gear position or for switching to sport mode. It does not switch the high/low, so you can get away with no h gate and use a simple switch for sport/manual mode.
The torque convertor lockup is primarily to improve fuel consumption ie eliminates the slip which just generates heat and wastes fuel. It might also be used in low range, but not sure what it would be for.
Engine speed required to enable g/box to know when to change gear.
 
davidg said:
Input from engine ecu via becm: Engine speed 12v square wave.
H gate is only for displaying the gear position or for switching to sport mode. It does not switch the high/low, so you can get away with no h gate and use a simple switch for sport/manual mode.
The torque convertor lockup is primarily to improve fuel consumption ie eliminates the slip which just generates heat and wastes fuel. It might also be used in low range, but not sure what it would be for.
Engine speed required to enable g/box to know when to change gear.
Click to expand...
Wrong, the H gate selects low range NOT sport mode, that is done with a button.
All gears can be selected manually in either Hi or Lo range.
 
Datatek said:
Torque convertor lock up works in low range, the 4.6 auto HP24 ECU is CAN BUS, do not try to use that one, stick to the 4.0 HP22 ECU.
Click to expand...

are you sure?
rave seems to say pre 99 ecus are non canbus

WHAT worries me is the immobiliseer input..serail data to engine ecu in one description,yet not in another..may be an issue..do not want to use becm,keys etc

also states in low range manual mode no torque converter lock up


re engine speed...
that is also available on engine ecu..pin 23 plug c505..(rave)
 
Datatek said:
Wrong, the H gate selects low range NOT sport mode, that is done with a button.
All gears can be selected manually in either Hi or Lo range.
Click to expand...
Didn't think all gears could be manually selected in High Range...

In Low Range in Manual, you can choose your drive gear 1, 2, or 3...then automatic Drive....selecting either 1, 2 or 3 will allow the vehicle to pull away in that gear for snow/slippery starts....

In High Range, selecting 1,2 or 3 will only limit upshifts - i.e. you select 2, the box will start in 1 and then accelerate into 2 but won't change up further....so it is not a truly manual selection.
 
from my understanding (re rave) manual is only available in low, but then torque convertor solenoid does not work..
so..for me to get manual..(ie stays in gear i select, even if i red line it) i will have to fool gearbox ecu into thinking its in low..EASY (can use h gate,instead of switching into low will just select manual)..but i wont get lock up of convertor in manual..

immobiliser..

rave states..
"A further feature of the system is ’robust
immobilisation’, fitted to European specification
vehicles. Upon arming the alarm, the EMS ECM
disables the injectors and the Body electrical Control
Module (BeCM) inhibits the crank relay (the vehicle
cannot be started until the alarm is disarmed)."

if this is all it does then no poroblems..but..on engine ecu there is immobiliser in pin,possilby serial data...??????more reading. only 1500 pages to reread
 
upon more investigation..ie reading rave...it may be just a gnd signal applied to engine ecu to cut power/or initiate power??

range rover etm.4th edition 1995

s3 page 11..

its a black wire..hopefully then a switched gnd?
 
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Saint.V8 said:
Didn't think all gears could be manually selected in High Range...

In Low Range in Manual, you can choose your drive gear 1, 2, or 3...then automatic Drive....selecting either 1, 2 or 3 will allow the vehicle to pull away in that gear for snow/slippery starts....

In High Range, selecting 1,2 or 3 will only limit upshifts - i.e. you select 2, the box will start in 1 and then accelerate into 2 but won't change up further....so it is not a truly manual selection.
Click to expand...

In hi range, you can force a down shift if the road speed is appropriate or hold it in any gear you choose, select first when you pull away and there it will stay until you select second, third etc, it will not down shift on the stick in either hi or low range if the road speed is too high for the gear.
In lo range the sport button does indeed make it operate as a manual box with each gear selectable, it's not clear from my book if it will actually pull away in the selected gear though and I've never had the occasion to try it, it does say maximum engine braking is available in lo range which implies torque convertor lock up and it still will not down shift if the road speed is too high.
Zen, according to my info, all P38's with the 4.6 have the CAN bus auto ECU.
 
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Datatek said:
In hi range, you can force a down shift if the road speed is appropriate or hold it in any gear you choose, select first when you pull away and there it will stay until you select second, third etc, it will not down shift on the stick in either hi or low range if the road speed is too high for the gear.
In lo range the sport button does indeed make it operate as a manual box with each gear selectable, it's not clear from my book if it will actually pull away in the selected gear though and I've never had the occasion to try it, it does say maximum engine braking is available in lo range which implies torque convertor lock up and it still will not down shift if the road speed is too high.
Zen, according to my info, all P38's with the 4.6 have the CAN bus auto ECU.
Click to expand...

All petrol models from 99 on Keith. According to RAVE.
 
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Datatek said:
According to my copy of RAVE, CAN BUS auto ECU's only ever appled to the ZF4HP24 in the 4.6, given the large number of errors in RAVE it's anybody's guess:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

In my RAVE circa 2000, it just says from MY 99 petrol models had a revised Canbus ECU. No specific engine size or gearbox type are mentioned. Just petrol models. :)
 
wammers said:
In my RAVE circa 2000, it just says from MY 99 petrol models had a revised Canbus ECU. No specific engine size or gearbox type are mentioned. Just petrol models. :)
Click to expand...
OK, I have just found a similar reference to do with calibrating the ECU for 4.0 or 4.6 when changing the ECU but this reference does not mention CAN Bus other than that this ECU can be read with some generic scan tools.
In low range manual, RAVE also confirms that the gearbox will still select 1st when pulling away then change directly to the selected gear:)
 
Datatek said:
OK, I have just found a similar reference to do with calibrating the ECU for 4.0 or 4.6 when changing the ECU but this reference does not mention CAN Bus other than that this ECU can be read with some generic scan tools.
In low range manual, RAVE also confirms that the gearbox will still select 1st when pulling away then change directly to the selected gear:)
Click to expand...

The adaptive value settings can only be done on the later Canbus ECU. Earlier GS2.38 ECU fitted to petrol models til 1999 and diesel models to 2002 did not have adaptive learn or Canbus. Later 1999 on ECU GS8.87.0 or 1 have Canbus and adaptive learn capability and service both 4.0 and 4.6 petrol engines. Maps for both engines are stored in the GS8.87.0 or 1 ECU and can be interchanged. Adaptive values can be reset on fitting a new gearbox. Adaptive values learned as the box wears, change timing for instance, would be detrimental to a new unit.
 
wammers said:
The adaptive value settings can only be done on the later Canbus ECU. Earlier GS2.38 ECU fitted to petrol models til 1999 and diesel models to 2002 did not have adaptive learn or Canbus. Later 1999 on ECU GS8.87.0 or 1 have Canbus and adaptive learn capability and service both 4.0 and 4.6 petrol engines. Maps for both engines are stored in the GS8.87.0 or 1 ECU and can be interchanged. Adaptive values can be reset on fitting a new gearbox. Adaptive values learned as the box wears, change timing for instance, would be detrimental to a new unit.
Click to expand...
Yep, that's pretty much what it say's which confirms it is CAN bus:)
 
it cant be canbus..it has the wrong sockets..ie same as early pre 99..

also engine ecu is non canbus..so therefore why would autobox ecu be canbus..it would not have anything to talk to!!

out of curiosity has anyone got part number for hp22 ecu..would be interesting to see if same as 4.6??

if rave is correct..it is non canbus, as 95-99 dont have canbus..to confirm my pinouts of engine and auto box ecu are as rave pre 99...atleast the plugs are..post 99 very different looking ecu's.
 
Datatek said:
Wrong, the H gate selects low range NOT sport mode, that is done with a button.
All gears can be selected manually in either Hi or Lo range.
Click to expand...
The H gate is the plastic housing that sits on top of the gear selector housing/assy. The plastic housing has nothing to do with the selection of high/low (apart from indicating high/low position), that is done with the microswitches in the base of the gear selector housing/assy. The manual/sport button is part of the H gate. I think we have a difference is component naming.
 
zen said:
it cant be canbus..it has the wrong sockets..ie same as early pre 99..

also engine ecu is non canbus..so therefore why would autobox ecu be canbus..it would not have anything to talk to!!

out of curiosity has anyone got part number for hp22 ecu..would be interesting to see if same as 4.6??

if rave is correct..it is non canbus, as 95-99 dont have canbus..to confirm my pinouts of engine and auto box ecu are as rave pre 99...atleast the plugs are..post 99 very different looking ecu's.
Click to expand...

Petrol pre 1999 are NOT Canbus. Petrol 1999 on ARE Canbus both 4.0 and 4.6. Diesel was never Canbus. Microcat - Spare parts Land Rover catalogue in English
 
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