Assessing wear in a PAS box

The leak in the old steering box has recently turned from a drip to a pour, so it's time to either rebuild it or buy one out of a breaker's yard here. (I'd love just to get an Adwest rebuild from Paddock, but the thought of shipping to Morocco makes me break out in a cold sweat).

So I'm looking for some advice on assessing a PAS box without disassembly (1) so I can tell if I should even attempt to rebuild the current box and (2) so I can buy something better out of a breaker's yard if I can't rebuild this one.

I have the old box out. Turning the input shaft on it feels stiff and very rough - feels like it's full of gravel, so I guess the beatings are finito. Does this mean that rebuilding is no longer an option?

And any tips on assessing a used box in a breaker's yard appreciated. I (obviously) want to avoid buying something that turns out - once it's installed - to be as completely f***** as the one I have now.

Cheers and thanks in advance.

Have you thought of putting a post on http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/ to see if anyone from the UK could bring you one out on their travels? I know there are a couple of guys heading down to Gambia next month so would guess they will be in Rabat for their Mauritania visas?
I would be happy to oblige but won't be back out until October and the closest we'll get is when we pass through Meknes en-route from Ifrane to Chefchaouen (leading a group so a detour is not an option I'm afraid, which is a shame as I enjoy a night out in the seedier bars in Rabat )

Rabat Matt said:

The leak in the old steering box has recently turned from a drip to a pour, so it's time to either rebuild it or buy one out of a breaker's yard here. (I'd love just to get an Adwest rebuild from Paddock, but the thought of shipping to Morocco makes me break out in a cold sweat).

So I'm looking for some advice on assessing a PAS box without disassembly (1) so I can tell if I should even attempt to rebuild the current box and (2) so I can buy something better out of a breaker's yard if I can't rebuild this one.

I have the old box out. Turning the input shaft on it feels stiff and very rough - feels like it's full of gravel, so I guess the beatings are finito. Does this mean that rebuilding is no longer an option?

And any tips on assessing a used box in a breaker's yard appreciated. I (obviously) want to avoid buying something that turns out - once it's installed - to be as completely f***** as the one I have now.

Cheers and thanks in advance.

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set box central and feel play they shouldnt be any,the turn lock to lock ,mole grips on input is ok for such,check bottom shaft for signs of leaks as the whole box in general,knotchyness isnt allways brgs they can feel a little like that

Seals gone so it's worn, replace it

MrIFan said:

Have you thought of putting a post on http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/
I would be happy to oblige but won't be back out until October ... I enjoy a night out in the seedier bars in Rabat )

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Thanks - problem there is that car parts carry duty and while I could ask someone to slip a p-gasket in their pocket, 20 kilos of steering box... not so much. Drop us a line if you're coming through town though. Seedy bars are always fun.

jamesmartin said:

set box central and feel play they shouldnt be any,the turn lock to lock ,mole grips on input is ok for such,check bottom shaft for signs of leaks as the whole box in general,knotchyness isnt allways brgs they can feel a little like that

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Thanks. I'll go ahead an pull the old one apart then and see what the bearings look like.

When turning lock to lock is it possible to make leaky seals do some leaking w/out pressure from the pump? Or am I just feeling for general wear inside?

Rabat Matt said:

Thanks - problem there is that car parts carry duty and while I could ask someone to slip a p-gasket in their pocket, 20 kilos of steering box... not so much. Drop us a line if you're coming through town though. Seedy bars are always fun.

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couldn't someone carry one for their 'own' use and just forget to bring it home again?

Rabat Matt said:

Thanks. I'll go ahead an pull the old one apart then and see what the bearings look like.

When turning lock to lock is it possible to make leaky seals do some leaking w/out pressure from the pump? Or am I just feeling for general wear inside?

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youve miss understood me you can only see it leaking when fitted and pressurised but you can look for signs when box is on the bench, box should have no play when in center position but does have increasingly so as you go to either lock,dont pull box apart unlesss you know how to reset it, i was saying boxes when turned by hand dont feel smooth, bearing wear will be shown by play

Rabat Matt said:

Thanks - problem there is that car parts carry duty and while I could ask someone to slip a p-gasket in their pocket, 20 kilos of steering box... not so much. Drop us a line if you're coming through town though. Seedy bars are always fun.

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These are guys who will be driving down in overland prepped 4x4s and carrying their own spares so an extra steering box shouldn't be a problem. I come through Tanger Med or Ceuta 3 or 4 times a year carrying the luggage for 8-10 bikes along with various spares and tools and have never had to do more than open the back door of the vehicle for inspection. Even if they do get searched on the way in it is very unlikely that customs will list what they are carrying so as long as they claim it as their own spare part. Ferrying spares over for fellow travelers and residents alike is a regular thing for most regulars on HU. I've delivered many a spare to Peter at Bikershome in Ouarzazate, big and small, with no issue whatsoever. It's definitely worth an ask if you need a new one, they're a friendly and very well traveled bunch on Horizons.
Don't think I'm going to make Rabat this year but will definitely be there next year so will drop you a PM and catch you for a beer if you're about. Is the upmarket bar with the "interesting" upstairs disco still open, opposite the Post Office just down from the Railway Station?

jamesmartin said:

youve miss understood me you can only see it leaking when fitted and pressurised but you can look for signs when box is on the bench, box should have no play when in center position but does have increasingly so as you go to either lock,dont pull box apart unlesss you know how to reset it, i was saying boxes when turned by hand dont feel smooth, bearing wear will be shown by play

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Gotcha now. Thank you. There is barely detectable play at centre. Do you mean reset to centre? There was nowhere to set the pin through the drop arm, so I made a mark on the shaft and housing but really I'm relying on counting turns lock to lock and going for the middle of that.

Thanks again.

MrIFan said:

These are guys who will be driving down in overland prepped 4x4s and carrying their own spares so an extra steering box shouldn't be a problem. ... will definitely be there next year so will drop you a PM and catch you for a beer if you're about. Is the upmarket bar with the "interesting" upstairs disco still open, opposite the Post Office just down from the Railway Station?

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My bad - I didn't check out HU well enough before replying above. I've taken a better look now and yeah, there's some interesting possibilities there. Thanks. The only disco I've had time for so far has been the greasy one in the driveway, but you have me curious now...

Rabat Matt said:

Gotcha now. Thank you. There is barely detectable play at centre. Do you mean reset to centre? There was nowhere to set the pin through the drop arm, so I made a mark on the shaft and housing but really I'm relying on counting turns lock to lock and going for the middle of that.

Thanks again.

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counting turns is fine roughly 3 and 3/4s lock to lock

Doesn't look good to me. The input shaft is very rough and pitted where the bearings were. I've taken some photos, but I'm thinking it's just time for the new box.

yes that is buggered,google rtc4405 i shouldnt think they sell many

jamesmartin said:

yes that is buggered,google rtc4405 i shouldnt think they sell many

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That's the part, but I only see it at £1,100+vat. Get a whole box (QAF500120) for £345 at Paddock. What am I missing something? Seems like it might be time to buy the whole box and part it out!

Rabat Matt said:

That's the part, but I only see it at £1,100+vat. Get a whole box (QAF500120) for £345 at Paddock. What am I missing something? Seems like it might be time to buy the whole box and part it out!

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thats what i meant just one part is now several times the price of a new box,they used to be about 60

And I had a moment of hope. Looks like I'll be twiddling my fingers until I can get the box in here - or combing the breaker's yards here.

Thanks for the help.