Alternator woes...

slob · May 14, 2007

alternator wiring is dead simple if you understand it. if you int got a clue abour lectrick, as tom bola admits, then its not dead easy.
am sure they'll be things mr bola finds dead easy, that you would find beyond comprehension.

CharlesY · May 14, 2007

slob said:
alternator wiring is dead simple if you understand it. if you int got a clue about lectrick, as tom bola admits, then its not dead easy.
am sure they'll be things mr bola finds dead easy, that you would find beyond comprehension.

Naah, that's a defeatist attitude, and ends up costing money in dealers' premises.

How difficult can TWO wires be anyway?

If the alternator itself is new and working, then when the engine is running it MUST make electricity if both cables are live to Battery+.

All the IGN switch does is to cut off the wee wire when you stop the motor so the battery doesn't go flat by discharging into the alternator through the wee wire.

I still say check the cables and terminals for a problem in the wee wire or the IGN switch connections. The symptoms suggest no power on the wee wire.

Perhaps it would help if I said that the alternator (and a dynamo too) needs to take a little power IN the wee wire so it can use that to make a lot of power OUT the big wire. No power IN therefore means no power OUT.

CharlesY

GRUNT · May 14, 2007

Perhaps it would help if I said that the alternator (and a dynamo too) needs to take a little power IN the wee wire so it can use that to make a lot of power OUT the big wire. No power IN therefore means no power OUT.

Eh?

slob · May 14, 2007

ffs heidi !!! you just dunt get it......
some folk just run away at the meer mention of electrics. defeatest it might be or some would say knowing yer own limits and sticking to them.
dint ferget the world is made up of all sorts of different personalities. and those that quake at simple lectrics might be a wizard with the workings of a 25 speed pre select awd auto gearbox.

he dunt wanna do no more to it and has past the torch to someone else.

CharlesY · May 14, 2007

GRUNT said:
Eh?

OK, here's the way it works.

Basically, electricity appears in any wire (or bit of metal) if it MOVES through a magnetic field. So, if you pass a wire close to a magnet, electricity will be made in the wire.

In your alternator, the wires where the leccy is made is the STATOR windings all around the inside of the body of the thing.

The magnetism is in the ROTOR bit that is spun mega fast by the fanbelt. To make the rotor magnetic, needs a little electricity put IN to the rotor, and it goes in from the battery to the IGN switch then the wee wire (through the internal regulator) through the two carbon brushes onto the slip-rings of the rotor. This makes the rotor into a magnet that is spinning inside a coil of STATOR wire - well several coils of wire actually, but that doesn't matter.

The internal REGULATOR keeps it all under control, BUT .... I still need to make y'all agree that NO POWER IN means NO POWER OUT!

Once you see that, you'll have it sorted in jig time.

NEVER run an alternator with the big cable disconnected as it will burn itself out in no time flat.

CharlesY

slob · May 14, 2007

erm!!!! some alts are self eggsiting and dunt need to be prodded to work.

slob · May 14, 2007

anyway he's gave up on it so am going back to some serious pish taking

CharlesY · May 14, 2007

slob said:
erm!!!! some alts are self exciting and dunt need to be prodded to work.

Nope.
They wiill NOT generate power unless the wee wire is able to supply enough voltage and current (both ...) to provide the field for the rotor.

What you say about self-excitation may be correct and some may try to start generating, BUT, if there's no power on the wee wire, nothing will come out the big wire. END.

It's the way things are.

CharlesY

GRUNT · May 14, 2007

I still need to make y'all agree that NO POWER IN means NO POWER OUT!

You make it sound as if an alternator or dynamo needs an external power source to make it work.

CharlesY · May 14, 2007

GRUNT said:
You make it sound as if an alternator or dynamo needs an external power source to make it work.

Essentially, YES.

Most dynamos will self-excite but to run properly they will need to be connected to a battery so there is a reference voltage on the output cable. Otherwise there's nowhere for the power to go, and not a lot happens.

The alternator uses the BATTERY voltage as a reference too, and compares battery voltage with the regulator setting. The bigger the difference, the harder the alternator tries to make more elctricity. If the battery is LOW, the alternator will work hard to bring it up to the 13.8 volts of the regulator.

If an alternator is run with no battery connected, the cables see ZERO volts, and if the thing self-excites it will make some electricity into the big cable, which is actually connected directly to the wee cable when the IGN is ON, and so the regulator gets field power. As there is ZERO reference volts, the alternator regulator switches to maximum power generation possible, and a vicious cycle sets up that WILL destroy the alternator in a very short time, possibly in less than one minute.

Even when the battery is fully charged, turning on anything that uses electricity will draw current from the battery, and the battery voltage will go down a tad. The alternator regulator senses this voltage drop through the cables, and instantly increases it's output to bring the system back up to 13.8 volts.

OK ?

CharlesY

slob · May 14, 2007

so what yer saying is...
if there is no volts on the wee wire it wint work

try taking the warning bulb out and see what happens

if there is no volts on the wee wire it wint work

so how does it blow the **** outta it self when disconnected but injun running

GRUNT · May 14, 2007

Eee well go ter foot of our stairs.

The Mad Hat Man · May 14, 2007

fur those of yuz wot dinna ken - look here

CharlesY · May 14, 2007

slob said:
so what yer saying is...
if there is no volts on the wee wire it wint work

CORRECT!

try taking the warning bulb out and see what happens

It may stop working, but not always. Some are wired a little differently. Not all depend on the bulb as part of the field circuit.

if there is no volts on the wee wire it wint work

CORRECT!

so how does it blow the **** outta it self when disconnected but injun running.

Because it may self-excite (easy girls ...) as you said earlier, even though there is no voltage on the wee wire, and the now working alternator system then "sees" no voltage at all, and so it sends MAXIMUM possible power to the wee wire. Now, remember, the wee wire is connected direct to the big wire if the IGN is ON. So, in effect, it sends all the power it makes straight to the wee wire, because there is nowhere else for it to go if there isn't a battery connected. The thing then runs out of control in a viscious circle that leads to self-destruction in no time flat.

Remember what boys were told in the olden days ... self-excitation will lead to self-destruction!

CharlesY

slob · May 14, 2007

"Chinese proverb. One picture is worth ten thousand words."

CharlesY · May 14, 2007

Dear Slob,

Please let me know how to put pictures on the list.

If you send me an enlargement I can ask a friend of mine to offer a diagnosis of your obvious difficulty. Meantime, you have my sympathy - it can't be comfortable, and you must be going though lots of underpants.

CharlesY

The Mad Hat Man · May 14, 2007

crikey slob, even the guys want you to "send me an enlargement" - yo luck is in - spoiled fur choice if yu ask me (which yu didnt)

slob · May 14, 2007

am not sure why you asked me to do a search for you, probably cos yer too busy sprouting horse**** about lucas acr alternators. anyway being a kind chap that i am , i did a search for you, so if you want an enlargement maybe you can try here

Penis Enlargement - Natural Penis Enlargement And Pill Articles

ave no idea if they will be able to help you as personally i don't need to worry about that ( int that right hybread?)

tom bola · May 14, 2007

Right. Here's the chat. Aint no leccy guy. Don't like wigglys full bloody stop. Infact, I aint mechanical either, but am trying to get ma thick heid round them slowly. I only have this landy, nowt else and I have spent too many hours on what is supposed to be a straight forward job. I have other things to do, like work, so it's time for someone who knows what they are doing to take over. Probably take them half an hour and they will be paid in bacon or veg or some other barter type stuff. No dealers or garages here.

As Slob said, I could bore the ****e out o ya on many things, but leccy aint ma bag. Knowing ur limits is the key. Charles might be a jack of all trades but I for one am not.

thehulkowner · May 14, 2007

i KNOW WAT THE PROBLEM IS!!
i have (or should i say had) the same problem try adjusting your slow running jets on the carbs make them so they run at about 650 rpm this WORKS and the light will disappear!

Alternator woes...

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