About to take the P38 plunge

Hi guys,

After having my freelander for 2 years now, I’ve chosen to upgrade to a P38 rangie.. Ive always wanted one, and im sick of either running out of space in the freelander, or running out of puff when towing.
Ive been keeping my eye out for a 4.0 V8 to either convert to LPG myself, or if one comes along, one thats already converted.
Ive come across a cracking 2000 (W) plate, but its a 4.6 vogue SE.. Ive been told by a friend that they suffer more with overheating issues?? Is this correct?
Id appreciate any advice from you guys on weather to purchase or steer clear.. And if anyone on here who has a 4.0 or 4.6 with LPG fitted wants to say how they find them (reliability, running costs, how many miles off a tank they get etc etc) feel free to chuck a comment on

Also, what are the most common faults to look for?

The 4.6 might stay in a lower gear whilst under strain leading to overheating, but can be avoided by working the gearbox. I'd get one which has already been converted and certified, so as to avoid the risk of potentially converting an engine on the way out.
Depending on what you want to use it for, it may be worth considering the diesel - almost as much torque as the 4.0 but with much better economy.
Regarding faults, pop a search in for "P38 checklist" and I think you'll find a good one
General rule of the P38 buyers guide; you really probably shouldn't... but if you do, you'll love it!

Thanks Tcubed..

I did fancy the diesel to start with.. but was told coupled with the auto box to only expect 24-26 to mpg and that it was sluggish as hell?

My line of thinking was if i had a 4.0 V8 with LPG, id be expecting about 18mpg.. as LPG is half the cost of petrol, pound for pound id be getting the equivilent of 36mpg out of it??

Anybody out there with a 2.5 auto DSE that can give me some feedback? Or anyone owned both the 4.0 V8 and the 2.5 diesel that could give me a comparison?

Thanks,
Andrew

newcyboots said:

Thanks Tcubed..

I did fancy the diesel to start with.. but was told coupled with the auto box to only expect 24-26 to mpg and that it was sluggish as hell?

My line of thinking was if i had a 4.0 V8 with LPG, id be expecting about 18mpg.. as LPG is half the cost of petrol, pound for pound id be getting the equivilent of 36mpg out of it??

Anybody out there with a 2.5 auto DSE that can give me some feedback? Or anyone owned both the 4.0 V8 and the 2.5 diesel that could give me a comparison?

Thanks,
Andrew

Click to expand...

Not a fan of the DSE auto and only towed a couple of times with my manual DSE i thinks its fine for towing. My loads were only light though (Fiesta and 1.5T of firewood). But as with the petrols even the diesels like to overheat sometimes. I'm a wuss and I'll only ever tow on a cold day! The torque from a diesel will probably be better for towing anyway.

I have a PSI fitted to mine (not a good idea on an auto as the increased output will chew up the gearbox) and the torque figures with some additional minor mods rival that of both the petrols (at the cost of reduced clutch life!). The economy is 25-32 on mine depending on driving style, winter/summer diesel, and outside temps. Which isnt bad for a 15 year old engine with 150k on it. Then look at the petrols and even with LPG are you likely to get the same economy. esp on an auto box? 18mpg?! remember the age of the vehicle...Dad has a 01 4.6 auto and he is lucky to get 15 on petrol on an engine with 75k on it (for obvious reasons he does less than 1k a year in it!). LPG is usually 70-90% of fuel economy so theoretically you'd be looking at 13 at best or worst around 9-10 on LPG. Im no LPG expert so the guys on here may tell you different.

The argument will go on but in my opinion, look for a Diesel.

And if you do...Check both cold and hot start, condition of the battery, Viscous Coupling, Viscous Fan, Rad, Watch the temp gauge when you test drive, and the usual EAS stuff.

I have a 2002 4.6 with Tartarini multipoint fitted. I get around 15 - 16 MPG on LPG on a good run. I cant fault my P38...always waiting for something to go wrong but such is the life of P38 ownership. I dont use mine for towing so couldn't comment on whether the diesel or V8 is the better option for this. For general driving though the V8 is much quicker & a whole lot smoother & generally much more refined. I've never had overheating issues but i guess this can be the luck of the drawer. I just make sure my cooling system is in top condition.

martynv8 hit it on the nail. Take care of the cooling system and it will take care of you. I don't know the costs in the UK but its possible to pressure test the cooling system to tell you what condition its in to start with and do newspaper test on fan viscous coupling. Other things I would check:

1. EAS. There's a very good write up in the How To section.
2. Maybe compression test all cylinders.
3. Test transmission VCU and diffs by jacking up a wheel and turning test and full steering lock at slow speed chirping test. Again there is plenty of info in the
forum.
4. Electrics are very sensitive. Even 0.5 volt low and the various ECUs start acting crazy. Check charging amps from the alternator, check for current drain, take out the fusebox in the engine compartment and turn it over for signs of discolouration or burning and do go around and check / tighten all earth connections. its just good practice.

These are the common failure items, not that many are there? General wear and tear will obviously throw up a lot of minor issues and depending on what you pay for it and how long you intend to keep it you will probably decide if they are worth fixing.

I will say one thing, trying to keep one of these beasts in mint condition is a bit of a pie-in-the sky dream and it will break you financially and morally! Getting it to 90% however is very dooable.

I have a DHSE Auto MY2000, it tows my caravan very well, does 24mpg average and up to 30mpg on a run. They are not that sluggish especially when compared to the likes of a Pajero, they just have an unusual throttle response with a long travel before it does much.
The diesel is without doubt more reliable then the petrol and you don't need to lose your spare wheel to carry explosives in your boot. LPG seems more likely to cook the engine then petrol. You dream if you think you will get 36mpg equivalent on LPG, more like 18mpg.
If you go diesel and want more power by chipping it, go for a manual as the manual box will stand the extra torque whereas the auto will not, if happy to leave as standard go for auto as the power delivery is more suited to the auto box, the torque converter masks the lack of low end power.

i have a chipped dse get about 26mpg not that slow when you want it to be!
advantage is with the diesel can run bio diesel happily (which i pay 80p a litre for)
auto is nicer to drive in my opinion than the manual it is true that chipping can chew the auto box up but a recon box is around £700 which isnt much different to clutch and dual mass flywheel on a manual!

Previously I had a 3.9 Classic (the 4.0 P38 is the same engine with a revised Ignition System - they just called it a 4.0 litre to distinguish it from the Classic..!! same displacement etc)

On gas I would manage 13mpg generally and upto 15-16 on a motorway run.

The Classic is a little less aerodynamic, and also the drive train is revised on the P38 so I would expect a little more MPG, but I would still count on no more than 18 on a long run and no more than 14-15 generally....

I usually base my comparisons on cost per mile rather than mpg...

My previous DSE would return 26.2mpg which was 25.2p per mile whereas my current 4.4 on Gas returns 15mpg and that is 22p per mile....

Don't foget that LPG is 15-20% less efficent than petrol, and 45% of the price - so the actual difference (as you'll use more gas litres than petrol litres for a given journey) is about 35-40%

I have a DIY installed LPG 4.6 and love it. I get 17mpg on a steady run from LPG, 18mpg from petrol on the same steady run. I can't do the maths, but LPG is 69p a litre around me so the running costs are very affordable. Got to be comparable to a diesel, but a nicer drive, and less polluting. I'd put the biggest tank you can find in, I get about 250 miles between fill ups. Less if I've done a lot of town driving.

It runs great on it too, was easy to install (kit from Tinley Tech), no overheating problems at all, but I don't do much heavy towing.

I'd consider the 4.6 very carefully, being a Vogue it'll have all the toys, and once you get the LPG in it'll be luxury motoring for very reasonable running costs.

Don't bother with the 4.0 unless you're going to get it cheap, there's no real difference in fuel consumption with the 4.6 and as you're using it for towing, the 4.6 comes with the much stronger 4HP24 transmission.

i've had my 4.6 just over 16 months now - i decided to get the best unmolested one, non converted & get it converted myself, I heard loads of stories about lpg systems not being fitted properly and causing all sorts of problems.
Also a non converted one wil be a lot cheaper to buy

Apart from some very minor niggles; replacing bulbs in HEVAC, new headlight washer pump, new glovebox gas ram & most recently, having to make a new spring for the tailgate lock the only preventative maintenance I've done is to get the cooling system checksed out and I decided to replace the water pump & thermostat.

My BRC mutlipoint LPG system was fitted by my local LR indy (90 ltr tank in spare wheel well) and I get about 270 miles from a fill and LPG is only 63p/ltr here so I get the V8 experience for diesel money.

I do a lot of towing the caravan both in the UK & abroad and she tows it lovely, in fact can't tell it's on the back.

go for it, just get the best one you can - there are good ones out there !!

My 2.5DSE Auto is fine for towing, usually large box trailers full of stuff or large car trailers.

The car is athletic compared to similar diesels of this size and the auto makes it painless.

There is a lot of travel on the accelerator peddle, but if you get used to it the drive is a lot punchier.

My 4.4 v8 was obviously faster than the diesel, but not as good to tow with.

newcyboots said:

My line of thinking was if i had a 4.0 V8 with LPG, id be expecting about 18mpg.. as LPG is half the cost of petrol, pound for pound id be getting the equivilent of 36mpg out of it??

Thanks,
Andrew

Click to expand...

18mpg you wish more like 11

Thanks guys,

Appreciate all your comments and advice, and its nice to see so much expertese and helpfulness on this part of the landyzone forum.

After all your comments, more research and careful consideration, i think im going to plump for the 2.5 diesel with auto box.. If i can get 25 mpg+ out of it, ill be more than happy.

I test drove one today and it seemes quite swift compared to my L series freelander.. Plenty of pull, seamless gearchange and the computer said 27.3 avg?

It has buckets of space inside (which i always seem to run out of in the freelander) and imagine it will pull my daughters horse trailer with 2 horses and all the gear pretty effortlessly..

Ill report back when ive found the one im going to purchase. If any of you have anymore advice, feel free to chip in with a comment.

Thanks again all

I'v got a DHSE auto thats chipped i tow a bailey twin axle 26ft caravan with mine and get 22 to 24 round town and i got a lead foot lol but i still get around 24 mpg towing the caravan

newcyboots said:

Thanks guys,

Appreciate all your comments and advice, and its nice to see so much expertese and helpfulness on this part of the landyzone forum.

After all your comments, more research and careful consideration, i think im going to plump for the 2.5 diesel with auto box.. If i can get 25 mpg+ out of it, ill be more than happy.

I test drove one today and it seemes quite swift compared to my L series freelander.. Plenty of pull, seamless gearchange and the computer said 27.3 avg?

It has buckets of space inside (which i always seem to run out of in the freelander) and imagine it will pull my daughters horse trailer with 2 horses and all the gear pretty effortlessly..

Ill report back when ive found the one im going to purchase. If any of you have anymore advice, feel free to chip in with a comment.

Thanks again all

Click to expand...

nice Choice! just do all the checks as mentioned previously and in doing a site search. There are plenty of duffers out there so dont go set your heart on the first one you see. If the slightest thing is wrong on the test drive, such as an indicator not working, interior temp and distribution controls not working, wet drivers footwell, rotten exhaust, all tyres aren't the same size, vibration at idle when warm
....walk away or get your money down.

There's lots of things on these that seem an easy fix but actually aren't and will leave you with a melted credit card.

25mpg is about average, you will get less in winter when the air is colder we're on winter Diesel in the UK and obviously extra heaters and lights. It summer you should get around 26,27ish. Of course those are without towing . When you test drive reset the computer to get an instantaneous reading while you're doing say a steady 50 on the dual carriage way. Press the 'i' in on the stalk for about 5 seconds and then let it think about it.

Let us know if you have any queries on one you're going to put money down on....

the onboard trip computer is rather optimistic!
mine usually says around the 30mpg mark but in real world it is around 26mpg
i also tow a 26ft twin axle bailey caravan cant say i would like too without it being chipped i paid £120 for mine from a company called ves sport in scotland solder in chip which i did myself improved it so much worth the cost of a gearbox
in the long run!

I have a 2000 model 4.6 on LPG but have had a 2.5 DSE (BMW engine) previously.

I have been towing the same twin axle caravan for ten years using a variety of cars.

The Diesel was always sluggish and struggled on long hills, I did get it chipped but this damaged the auto gearbox as said in an earlier post. It also had overheating trouble when towing down in the south of France, had to drive with the heating on full blast with the windows open to keep the engine cool !!!

3 months ago. I bought my current P38, a 4.6 Vogue with multi-point log conversion. The body work and running gear are in excellent condition, but within weeks I was having overheating trouble. In the end it cost me £4700 for a Turner Engineering short engine along with various ancillaries and the labour. I have done all the potential problem areas, suspension airbags, shocks, discs and pads, exhaust, radiator, A/C Condenser..... So it has cost me a fortune but I love these cars and I know that once I have sorted out a few other little issues, I will have a car that will last for years.

I have just towed our big twin axle caravan around for three weeks without issue, but I am going to fit Datatek's modification to bring the A/C fans on if engine temp rises above normal, it looks like a fairly easy mod requiring only and electrical thermostat and a small amount of wire, can't have too much cooling.

Would I do all this again?

My sensible head says NO, but I absolutely would do it anyway!

newcyboots said:

Thanks Tcubed..

I did fancy the diesel to start with.. but was told coupled with the auto box to only expect 24-26 to mpg and that it was sluggish as hell?

My line of thinking was if i had a 4.0 V8 with LPG, id be expecting about 18mpg.. as LPG is half the cost of petrol, pound for pound id be getting the equivilent of 36mpg out of it??

Anybody out there with a 2.5 auto DSE that can give me some feedback? Or anyone owned both the 4.0 V8 and the 2.5 diesel that could give me a comparison?

Thanks,
Andrew

Click to expand...

LPG unfortunately is NOT half the price of petrol, it used to be, then more people starting using it so the government soon put that right!