A few issues with my Freelander

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there are a lot of peeps on here that know a lot about these motors, i'm just an enthusiastic amateur myself and more of a fitter than a mechanic.
 
I just wondered because if the controller is sensing the tempereature of the coolant independantly of the thermostat and then relaying its own commands to the EWP and fan, then surely the thermo is redundant?
 
That lot went completely over my head but nevermind. I emailed Davies Craig with some queries re the redundancy of the mech pump and thermo. I'll see what they say.
 
If the thermo isn't needed then that'll save you a few bob that can be put toward the EWP system, it'll be inetesting to see what they say, I'll let you guys know.
 
yu dont have to have the EWP thermo controlled, but the EWP works in a different way - it is pulsed continiously,but the "on" pulses get loger as the temperature increases. It can be also be used in a "supplimentary" mode, where it only really comes into play to assist the main pump. Its main benefit is to continue to circulate the coolant after engine shut off, thereby reducing, if not eradicating, the heat soak and hot spots normally associated with these "K" series engines.
 
Yes the prevention of heat soak is the main reason it would be so effective on the K, in theory. I reckon that given the engine's sensitivity to overheating, heat soak is probably one of the bigger factors in HGF - it stands to reason that during afterboil the engine might get to its hottest temperature outside of high rev situations. I know that this is conjecture but I think it's reasonable to suppose that it's a big cause.

Does anyone know the ideal safe operating temperature for fuel efficiency of these engines? Seeing as the controller allows you to set the OT I'd probably go in favour of economy over power for everyday driving.

Edit: From the Davies Craig FAQ section -

"What do I do with the engine’s existing thermostat?
If you choose to use the Davies Craig Digital Controller you should remove the engine’s thermostat – the Controller is the new “thermostat”. The Digital Controller allows you to electronically set the engine target temperature and it adjusts the rate of coolant flow, hunting for, and then locking onto the temperature you set. You have five (5) options; 70c, 75c, 80c, 85c and 90c for either economy or performance, unlike your thermostat, which is set at one temperature by the engine manufacturer."
 
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At a guess 90degrees or as near to stat marked temperature
 
Sounds good, the controller goes in 5 degree increments from 75 to 95 so bang on. This part of the FAQ is directly applicable to us:

"Question No. 12
My vehicle is fitted with a thermostat bypass what should I do when I wish to replace the existing mechanical water pump with an EWP®?
Where there is a thermostat bypass in some engines including those produced by BMW & ROVER, there may be a bypass from the thermostat housing back to the water pump chamber so when the thermostat is fully closed, coolant passes directly from the engine block to the thermostat housing and then straight back to the block without passing through the radiator. When fitting your EWP® to an engine which uses a bypass valve style thermostat, after you have removed the thermostat, you will need to block off the bypass passage (with a core plug or similar), to prevent flow from your EWP passing directly back to the radiator without passing through the block."

Sounds like installation is easy enough. Unless I'm missing something, I can see no downside to fitting this system - apart from the cost which may be prohibitive for some.
 
Just found this on another forum

For those who cannot be bothered.
Fixing the Problems
As a 1.8 litre there are, or were, two minor problems, design features of the basic engine which did give rise to problems when the engine was tuned. The first is the positioning of the thermostat in the cooling system, which was not designed for engines frequently put under heavy load. It was first designed as an efficient engine for lightweight front wheel drive cars, typically the Rover Metro and the current Rover 25, with good fuel consumption and requiring low emissions from start-up when the car was likely to see a large number of very short inner city journeys. It was thus designed to give very rapid warm up by placing the thermostat at the coolant inlet to the engine, where the thermostat measures essentially cooled water from the radiator with a very small quantity of heated water from the balancing circuit until the stat opens. This is a very unusual coolant path design, but is effective in its required purpose.

The system does not function well in cooling circuits with a radiator a long way from the engine in the cooling path, or for engines constantly seeing high engine speeds .The problem arises when the engine is put under heavy load, causing high engine temperatures that are not immediately read by the thermostat because cold water in the radiator and hoses has to pass the thermostat first. This can cause enormous thermal gradients across the engine, causing both distortion of the head and block and also gasket failure. The vehicle which suffered most from this was the Land Rover Freelander. Apparently, the typical owner for this vehicle is the middle class housewife and mother who use it for large numbers of short shopping trips to the supermarket!! Being heavy and 4x4, the 1.8 litre K’s tend to be pushed very hard from cold. This results in the engine getting very hot before the water can circulate and open the thermostat. Result – blown gasket. Early last year, Rover introduced a new thermostat, the PRT thermostat that will open with pressure as well as temperature, the result is that it opens much more quickly and prevents this thermal shock across the engine. There still appear to be problems with the Freelander, amid concerns that Ford have already executed a cost down on this new thermostat. However, it is quite apparent that as soon as the thermostat is moved to the output on the engine that temperature related gasket failure no longer becomes an issue. It is something of a surprise therefore that the Ford engineers concerned with the installation and performance of the K in the Freelander do not adopt this simple approach. The PRT thermostat is also a very expensive item that must be an issue with such pressure for cost downs. However effective the PRT thermostat is for a road car, a far more effective solution for any engine used on the track, and in fact any Elise with its problematic long coolant hose runs is to move the thermostat to the output side of the engine. Both Elise Parts.com and QED do inexpensive remote thermostat housings for this purpose. When one of these units is employed, the thermostat is measuring the engine temperature and is therefore able to control the coolant temperature quickly and sensitively.

Removing the thermostat altogether, as currently practiced by some, is no solution, firstly because engine warm-up becomes protracted, with all the implications for premature engine wear and secondly, because the engine temperature is at the mercy of the pump speed, if engine speed falls, the coolant in the radiator will cool disproportionately, then as soon as engine speed builds and engine temperature with it, the pump speeds to sends a mass of very cold water from the radiator suddenly to the engine. There is no thermostat to even this process out so the engine is repeatedly subjected to thermal shock. Bad for the head, bad for the block, and sooner or later the gasket will go. Fit the thermostat to the coolant output and the extreme temperature gradients that beset the engine when used on the track are significantly mitigated. Modification of this coolant path is something that Lotus should have done with all the K series engines in all their Elise’s, This would have then prevented any gasket failures.

Regard sPhilip A
Click to expand...

Sp sounds like the EWP and Dual Controller would totally eliminate heat related HGF. If the heat sensor is placed on the coolant outlet, the problem should in theory be history. I'm just posting this up for anyone else who's interested.

Will.
 
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