300tdi wont turn over?

I've acquired a discovery 1 for not many beer tokens and have had chance to take a look at it today.

Bloke I bought it off said it lost power driving home one evening and then wouldn't start the morning after.

Coolant level is very low and the end of one glow plug is brown whereas the other 3 are black, so I expect the head gasket might well be poorly.

The engine wont turn over with the starter.
I've removed the glow plugs and the auxiliary drive belt, but it still doesn't want to turn over.

Starter engages fine and tries to turn the engine. Crank pulley rotates approximately 10 degrees and then stops. When the starter disengages the pulley returns to it's original point before it tried to turn. It once turned through about 2/3 of a crank rotation, but it was really slow.

Tried turning over with a known good battery and with jump leads to my main discovery.



Anyone have any ideas as to what might be stopping the engine from turning over?

TIA

Try turning it over with a socket on the crank first to make sure it's ok, then when you jump it ,put the neg to the engine it could be a bad earth.

check you dont have any water in the combustion chanbers it souds like youve got an hydraulic lock thing going on.

Dent said:

then when you jump it ,put the neg to the engine it could be a bad earth.

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I put the negative lead on the engine when i tried to jump start it.
I'll try to manually spin the crank next time i'm at the outlaws.
The discovery is on their drive at the moment.

Italian dave said:

check you dont have any water in the combustion chanbers it souds like youve got an hydraulic lock thing going on.

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Wouldn't turning the engine over with the glow plugs removed overcome that and simply throw the water out if it was there?

It'll go some way to doing it ..

TBH, if he was driving, said it lost power then wouldn't start I can't see how it could be water, unless he was driving down a river ... or the hg is nackered and leaking water into one or more cylinders. I'd try the glow plug out routine then if that doesn't work do a head strip to see ..

Paul D said:

I'd try the glow plug out routine then if that doesn't work do a head strip to see ..

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I tried to turn it over yesterday with the glow plugs removed, but it didn't want to turn over.

Is the head likely to require skimming when it's refitted or are 300tdi heads a hardy breed?

It might not be the head then ... Think I'd drop the engine out and see what's jammed. Have you tried simply removing the serpentine belt and turning the engine over? Could easily be a stuck oil/water/power steering pump or nackered alternator, giving the impression the engine is siezed!

Paul D said:

Have you tried simply removing the serpentine belt and turning the engine over? Could easily be a stuck oil/water/power steering pump or nackered alternator, giving the impression the engine is siezed!

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Yes. Auxiliary belt removed and glow plugs out and it will only turn through about 10 degrees and then returns to start point when starter is disengaged.

Sorry, sounds like the engine's seized then .. pistons, cams, crank etc so engine out and strip-down time I think!

try removing the starter motor and turning it by hand on the bottom pulley. It could be the starter has locked up. It could also be clutch seized although I would expect the vehicle to lurch if this was the case.

And the reason why the engine wont turn over?

There's a hole in your piston dear Galen dear Galen, There's a hole in your piston.

No worries though. The missing bits are stuck to the head

Galen said:

No worries though. The missing bits are stuck to the head

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would that be number 4 cylinder per chance?

Now I'm not an expert though I do know a technical term or two, but that piston looks fecked to me!!

Ahhh well, could have been worse ... much worse!!

ratty said:

would that be number 4 cylinder per chance?

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Yup. Other three seem fine, only no. 4 decided to party.

Anyone any ideas why its done this?

Is it repairable?

Paul D said:

Now I'm not an expert though I do know a technical term or two, but that piston looks fecked to me!!

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You could be right there :doh:

Paul D said:

Ahhh well, could have been worse ... much worse!!

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Galen said:

Yup. Other three seem fine, only no. 4 decided to party.

Anyone any ideas why its done this?

Is it repairable?

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It's a common fault. The engine gets seriously overheated and then the number 4 piston melts. It is repairable in most cases. If you are lucky there will be no damage to the bore. If you are unlucky you are gonna need it honing and fitting with an oversized piston/rings to compensate. It is actually extremely hard to kill a 300tdi that badly. I bought my 300tdi with number 4 piston on the way out. It was knocking it's arse off where the small end bearing was fecked. I drove it all the way down from Scotlandshire and then kept it driving for another 3 or 4 months while I sourced a decent engine. I actually took the engine out before I managed to kill it.

ratty said:

The engine gets seriously overheated and then the number 4 piston melts. It is repairable in most cases. If you are lucky there will be no damage to the bore. If you are unlucky you are gonna need it honing and fitting with an oversized piston/rings to compensate.

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So...
If the bore hasn't been buggered it should be a case of un bolt leg no. 4 from the crank and replace the piston. Bolt it back in?

ratty said:

It is actually extremely hard to kill a 300tdi that badly. I bought my 300tdi with number 4 piston on the way out. It was knocking it's arse off where the small end bearing was fecked. I drove it all the way down from Scotlandshire and then kept it driving for another 3 or 4 months while I sourced a decent engine. I actually took the engine out before I managed to kill it.

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From what i;ve been told, this engine was a decent runner before it decided to have a tantrum and offer its piston to the gods. 136k miles on it i think.

Should I replace the picton with a genuine item or are the white box pistons ok?