300tdi setup/tuning

Anyone know a good 300tdi engine tuner ?
I recently went to Strathearn Engineering but they can't do it as they dont have EGT or boost guages (ie the right tools). Amusingly (as I stood there knee deep in a sea of Britpart boxes) they said they'd "had a look and couldn't do it" and handed me a £150 bill.
No doubt if they had actually done something, or there was a 'Britpart out the box solution' the bill would have been a lot higher.

I need the pump to be set up so I'm not chucking black smoke everywhere. The car feels like it's making less than 80 horses yet has a larger intercooler (Alisport) and other mods which should have improved things dramaticaly.

£150 for doing nothing! Strewth.

Bloody daylight robbery charging you 150 quid for bugger all.
You shouldn't need the pump fiddled around with, if you're low on power and chucking out black smoke then you've got other issues

Most garages that state they tune Defenders are only interested in doing chip job's, Straight forward to do with the right gear and no great cost in parts or time but plenty charged. Finding ones who will fit larger intercooler, bit bigger turbo and set the pump are hard to find today.

the_wolf said:

Bloody daylight robbery charging you 150 quid for bugger all.
You shouldn't need the pump fiddled around with, if you're low on power and chucking out black smoke then you've got other issues

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They 'looked' at it .. they road tested it and the engineers report says "car goes ok, but is laggy when pulling away, need a boost gauge and gas temp (pyro) gauge before I start playing with fuelling or boost" .... they had it for around 6 hours or in other terms about £50 spent on coffee, sandwiches, cakes and more coffee in Crief ..

Anyway - tell me of my issues ?????

So its a LR replacement 300tdi engine with around 13000 miles
New Turbo (Turbo Rebuilds in Preesall near Blackpool) set to 1.2bar
Full width Alisport intercooler
Twin inlet manifold
Silicon pipes
New lift pump and pipes through a new filter.
K&N Air filter (with or without is the same)
FiP timing spot on (checked)
Fourby boost ring and pin

(Strathearn were told all this 2 weeks before I went)

Since then ...
Smoke screw in 1/2 turn
Star wheel loosened by 1/2 turn
Max fuel screw in by 1/4 turn

Even if you take out the boost ring and pin all of those other mods should give you a much sweeter running engine with plenty of power (standard power probably but better than what you're getting just now). Mine is standard and is nippy and fast (for a Defender) so I'd be looking at the mods and adjustments made to the injection pump as the culprit. Can you put that back to standard and see how it goes?

the_wolf said:

<snip> Can you put that back to standard and see how it goes?

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Errrr No.
Sorry to have wasted your time buddy.

What wheels/tyres are you running?
What ratio tfer box are you running?

hows the timing?

can loose power & smoke if 'out'...

Rich.

lynall said:

What wheels/tyres are you running?
What ratio tfer box are you running?

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I think the LT230 is a 1.22/1.21
Standard Wolf wheels with Goodridge 235/85

Zed. said:

hows the timing?
can loose power & smoke if 'out'...
Rich.

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How do I check ?

miktdish said:

I think the LT230 is a 1.22/1.21
Standard Wolf wheels with Goodridge 235/85

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Tbh I personally think the 1.2 is to high a rato with 235/85 tyres, some reckon it is okay.
Normal def tfer box ratio is 1.4.
Dont forget disco with 1.2 box will have smaller height tyres.

miktdish said:

How do I check ?

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If it starts on the button and does not smoke from cold, then it wont be far out.
Cheap timing pin kits on ebay, 25 quid Iirc, loads of vics on youtube, they make it seem complicated but start to finish 15 minute job to check the timing.

The thing is with the 200/300 is they are not powerful enough in std form, and tweaking them certainly helps, but and there is always a but, you will end up with smoke somewhere at some rpms as that extra fuel has to go somewhere and the injection system/engine design means the engine simply cannot burn it efficiently.
I would go back to std on all the pump settings, then max fuel screw in 1/4 turn and the same with the boost diagphragm, and see how you get on.
You will find pretty much anything apart from std tune will fail the mot smoke test.

Edit just rearead thsi thread and see you have an aftermarket boost pin fitted, removing that will pretty much fix your smoke problem on its own, as their very design means all they do is dump shed loads of fuel into the engine regardless of actual boost pressure.

lynall said:

If it starts on the button and does not smoke from cold, then it wont be far out.
Cheap timing pin kits on ebay, 25 quid Iirc, loads of vics on youtube, they make it seem complicated but start to finish 15 minute job to check the timing.

The thing is with the 200/300 is they are not powerful enough in std form, and tweaking them certainly helps, but and there is always a but, you will end up with smoke somewhere at some rpms as that extra fuel has to go somewhere and the injection system/engine design means the engine simply cannot burn it efficiently.
I would go back to std on all the pump settings, then max fuel screw in 1/4 turn and the same with the boost diagphragm, and see how you get on.
You will find pretty much anything apart from std tune will fail the mot smoke test.

Edit just rearead thsi thread and see you have an aftermarket boost pin fitted, removing that will pretty much fix your smoke problem on its own, as their very design means all they do is dump shed loads of fuel into the engine regardless of actual boost pressure.

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So back to standard like I told him

the_wolf said:

So back to standard like I told him

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I would say you gently suggested back to std

But what I was thinking was as you suggested back to std, then tweak the std pump internals.

lynall said:

I would say you gently suggested back to std

But what I was thinking was as you suggested back to std, then tweak the std pump internals.

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Lol. Every time I see posts about people saying their 300tdi is smoking a lot and is low on power its cos they've messed around with the FiP. I know you can get more out of them but only so much, itll never go like a rocket and the more you fiddle the more chance of messing things up

Where this all started from was my last 300tdi (95 on an M), to which I fitted a boost pin and the dual core Alisport intercooler, was superb. Picked up well, bags of go, little to no smoke, 27mpg, schweet.

This one, with a much newer engine was a tad flat from standard, ie before I did anything.
The turbo howled and when checked had a very wobbly CHRA.
I fitted the new full width intercooler and a had the turbo rebuilt.
I also fitted the pin and ring so 'in theory' this 'should be' as good if not better than the last one.
Same wheels
Same tfr box
Much newer engine.

But it isn't.
I have fitted the std pin back in, very little to no difference in get up and go, slightly less smoke - don't get hung up on the smoke, that's not the problem - the problem is the lack of power. My old 130K miles, 95 D90 was like a sports car compared to this one. This car is gutless, thats the issue.

@the_wolf what you suggested was 'i remove everything I had done' as an answer your statement that "I had other issues" when I asked you to tell me what my "other issues" were.
@lynall is being constructive, you on the other hand haven't been as yet

the_wolf said:

Lol. Every time I see posts about people saying their 300tdi is smoking a lot and is low on power its cos they've messed around with the FiP. I know you can get more out of them but only so much, itll never go like a rocket and the more you fiddle the more chance of messing things up

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@the_wolf I'm not "fiddling" with the FiP.
I don't want to 'fiddle' with anything, i'm an engineer, there are reasons why things don't work.
I took it to a specialist LR garage so they could (in your terms) 'fiddle' with it - actually I took it there so they could check it was set up correctly and use tools that I don't have to check the set up - and they didn't have the tools either.

I asked if anyone knew a good engine tuner who could set it up correctly and not simply charge me £150 (as Strathearn did) for doing SFA.
I don't have EGT or boost gauges, I can't check the fuel pressure or if the injectors are good.

I did apologise for wasting your time on this thread, if you have something positive to add i'm eager to hear it.

Calm down sunshine I'm only trying to help. I prefer to stick to basics and from what you've said Id be looking at the turbo being at fault. Did you rebuild it yourself?

the_wolf said:

Calm down sunshine I'm only trying to help. <snip>

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the_wolf said:

Lol. Every time I see posts about people saying their 300tdi is smoking a lot and is low on power its cos they've messed around with the FiP.

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Well that sort of comment doesn't help at all.

the_wolf said:

I prefer to stick to basics and from what you've said Id be looking at the turbo being at fault. Did you rebuild it yourself?

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No.
It was built by Turbo Rebuilds in Preesall near Blackpool and set to 1.2bar
I have spoken to them on several occasions, expressing concern, however all they can suggest is that I "send it back and we will check it".

By taking the car to a specialist/tuner, I would presume that they would check its operation in situ, ie measure the boost and determine if it is working correctly. Something I can't do.