My 300tdi Defender is eating valve caps!

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Allen's ROW

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MY DEEFENDER IS EATING VALVE CAPS - Help!
Please, any help would be appreciated - here's the thing.

I have a 110 Defender Station Wagon on and 03 Plate BUT IT IS A ROW SPEC, so 300Tdi Engine and Chassis, No CAT, TD5 Loom, Axles, Bodywork etc.

Its been a dream until - 56k did a Cam Belt - all OK, but 6 months and 4k later (so 60k) she developed a tinny clatter on retard - so as you excellerate and then come off the throttle there was a rattle that reduced as the rev's did. Asked my garage, told to come in when convenient and they'd adjust the tappits. 2 days later, rattle suddenly became real loud - all stop, rocker guide rail sheared in 2 places.

Rocker cover off, new guide rail, found 7 worn valve caps, 1 missing in action. Camera down the value pots - no sign, looked for it everywhere but didn't drop the sump (cause of the axle clearance and my southdown axle guard etc), changed the oil and filter, reset the tappits to 0.02mm and off we go.

1.5k miles later - rattly again. Regapped tappits - 0.02mm on stone cold engine. OK for a while then rattling and harsh sounding. 65k did the timing, retarded her a touch - less harsh but still rattling.

70k (and 15 months after guide rail incident) - rattling increasing, service due so we go looking for problems. Checked timing AOK, Checked inlet manifold and exhaust for shot gasket, lost stud - AOK, smoke filled engine, check the stroke, rings etc AOK, lifted the rocker guide rail/arm assembly - found 1 value cap 50% worn through, other showing severe signs of damage - 10k since they were replaced. Inspect all rocker arms, no wear, look AOK, retract push rods, look for wear at bottom, where they sit in the cam followers - no wear. Pushrods look true, not bent or warped. In general there is no swarf anywhere, there is no shards in the sump plug magnet.

So we do 8 New valve caps (all genuine dealer parts) and reset tappits to 0.02mm - no rattle, running lovely.

72k - Rattling again - after 2 weeks and a 2k trip to wales on holiday. Rattling on retard as you come off the throttle, about 2500 - 3000 revs I guess, can hold the rattle on with careful throttle control, noise comes through the bulkhead around knee height on passenger side - even the wife can hear it!!!!

ANY IDEAS???? Gonna regap the tappits tomorrow and look for correlation on which one is baggy (3 was the worst last time), maybe switch the rocker arms around on the rail and see if the bagginess moves with the rocker arm, plan to inspect the threads on the studs to see if the rockers are coming loose.

I've had some suggestions - Its a ROW spec, going to a hot country, engine set up with larger clearances - Ask for ROW spec clearances from LR???, Change all the rocker arms?? change the cam shaft and cams?? - but hold on!!

Thanks - Allen​
 
clearances are the same all over the world, i be looking into why rocker shaft sheared after adjusting tappets .pistons all but touch head poor adjustment can give issues including bending valve stems,are rocker contact surfaces worn ,tappets adjusted properly quite a few dont know how to do it correctly ,id be checking cam followers you can see them with a tourch, valves .correct assembly of rocker shaft,and contact surfaces
 
0.02 isnt it 0.20?
Have heard of 200 and 300 having problems with the tappet sliders wearing and twisting around in their housing allowing the valve to get to much lift, this then causing the valve to hit the piston, breaking the shaft, sound feasible?
Have seen it on the trucks at work, but on them it causes catastrophic failure, apparently 8k for a head!
But have to say not seen it myself on any of mine 2x200 and 2x300 all well over 100k just the usual gaskets etc.


Lynall
 
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Thanks for tips so far. Just to be clear rocker guide sheared before any tappet work done, will check cam followers and definately check sliders to see if they have rotated, fun day tomorrow, might fit a rocker cover zip, save on instant gasket. Rocker contact areas show no wear. Allen
 
Rocker guide rail off again as tappets baggy on 6,7,8 - after 1500 miles - valve stem caps well beaten in that time, so kept looking. Slider tops look OK, valve springs OK, rocker surfaces show no wear, pushrods all true and not worn.

So unless anyone has any other ideas its head off time!!!! Maybe piston is coked and causing the valves to make contact with piston face - thats all we can think, or the head gasket has compressed so much its too tight in there???

:mad:
 
Hi mate two months ago I overhauled my head - new valvels and valve caps. now on y way back through France and had to stop due to excessive rattle and vibration in engineof my 200tdi disco. had the valve cover off yesterday and discovered all caps had worn through. Just left with polo mints around the top of the valve stem. Have removed them and will limp home without the caps but will be beating a path to LR dealer asking him to check which brand of cheese they are made from! Wish me luck.
 
Here's my 10 cents worth. Its very odd that this has all happened since a cam belt change. Could it be that the valve timing is very slightly out? My white Disco 300TDi had valve dents on pistons 1 and 4. This with a 3 hole gasket (the thickest). The car has never run properly in all the time I've had it but just what the fault is I've still not fathomed. The old head has probably been skimmed without re-seating the valves deeper. On the valves that had been kissing the pistons one had a badly worn valve cap and the other had a valve cap that was just a ring. I think the new head will be thicker but time will tell. Anyhow on my second heap of junk the valve timing is now extremely suspect. The good news is that I've just discovered that the plastic Y piece on the thermostat housing vent pipe was blocked up with rust and/or Radweld so some progress is being made. Good luck!
 
Hi mate two months ago I overhauled my head - new valvels and valve caps. now on y way back through France and had to stop due to excessive rattle and vibration in engineof my 200tdi disco. had the valve cover off yesterday and discovered all caps had worn through. Just left with polo mints around the top of the valve stem. Have removed them and will limp home without the caps but will be beating a path to LR dealer asking him to check which brand of cheese they are made from! Wish me luck.

What was the valve stand-down? (how much they protrude from the head) The clearances on these engines is fag paper thin and its easy to get dents in pistons. F'rinstance my white 300 TDi had little aluminium tubes extruded from pistons 1 and 4. It looks as if the red hot exhaust valves had branded the pistons! Possibly the valve timing is out although the car did run. The two Discos that I've got were both slugs that struggled to get above 60 mph but they should go better than that. Careful measurement is needed before re-assembly as if the pistons come flush with the block the valve stand down must be less than the thickness of the gasket. Possibly the pistons expand upwards when the engine is worked hard. Good luck!
 
Here's my 10 cents worth. Its very odd that this has all happened since a cam belt change. Could it be that the valve timing is very slightly out? My white Disco 300TDi had valve dents on pistons 1 and 4. This with a 3 hole gasket (the thickest). The car has never run properly in all the time I've had it but just what the fault is I've still not fathomed. The old head has probably been skimmed without re-seating the valves deeper. On the valves that had been kissing the pistons one had a badly worn valve cap and the other had a valve cap that was just a ring. I think the new head will be thicker but time will tell. Anyhow on my second heap of junk the valve timing is now extremely suspect. The good news is that I've just discovered that the plastic Y piece on the thermostat housing vent pipe was blocked up with rust and/or Radweld so some progress is being made. Good luck!
You need the valves reground, the thick head gasket did make up for the head being skimmed a time or 2
 
Its the timing belt or valve timing I guarantee it! The reason why I know is that back along I bought yet another Discovery in order to move a boat (I've not had much luck at all with 4x4s) The white Disco ran OK on the test drive although it seemed low on power, however on twisty country lanes its hard to tell.

When the boat removal from Dover was attempted for a friend the engine boiled after the fan belt shredded (in the dark so you cannot see the steam and on a steep hill) The belt was replaced but all was not well. The outfit was then limped to East Grinstead and in the morning the head gasket was replaced. It was noteworthy that the pistons had valve dents in them with aluminium extruded upwards like volcanoes! The extruded metal was chiselled-off just in case. With the new gasket more towing was attempted but again all was not well and in the end the boat had to be left on a farm. Running light the Discovery made it OK to Cornwall where it could be looked at properly.

I had bought a lot of spares for another real dog of a Discovery, the red one, that only lasted three days before it cooked (Long story but the middle aged legal owner had "fronted" the car for eight years for his 17 year old sprog whose hobby was off-roading. Needless to say this wasn't mentioned on flea-bay)

The White Disco's bores were ridge-reamed and honed. New standard pistons replaced the damaged ones and a new head and radiator were fitted. The sump was dropped of course and was found to be full of broken valve caps. A new timing belt kit was fitted with a new flanged crankshaft sprocket. Getting the timing right is not easy as the marks must be looked at square-on. A mirror can be useful. If the marks are looked at from the top, parallax error will guarantee incorrect timing (this is where the mirror is useful) It is almost impossible to get the belt too tight but it is quite easy to get it too slack! The hard part is tightening the crankshaft pulley nut. If the sump is off it is possible to jam the crankshaft using a "Gorilla Bar". I found that a 3/4" drive socket set plus a cheater pipe was ideal as about 300 foot pounds of torque plus thread-lock is needed on that nut. After the repairs it was a great truck that towed a boat trailer from Peterhead to Cornwall without needing any engine oil or water. It was only retired because of MOT nitpicking about rust and MOT nitpicking about the previous owners bad welding. One day I hope to rebuild it as unlike many 4x4s it will tow quite happily in 5th gear. Try that with a worn-out dog and the kangaroo-effect will kick in.

Good luck with the valve caps but it might pay to use the thickest possible head gasket. Another thing is that if the head is skimmed the valve seats should be re-cut so that the valves don't stand too proud. (Head skimming is a bad idea really as the vacuum-impregnated sealant layer will be lost)

PS don't forget the three way widget that is supposed to vent air and steam into the header tank. When the widget gets blocked-up it will cause lots of trouble.
 
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