300 or td5

Hi guys my 300 is 20 yrs old and seems prety solid the engine has done 164000 mles MOT due end of March I think it will pass but you never can be shure, If I need to get another one I think my choice would be a TD5 but Im told parts are a lot dearer engines are a bit dodgy. Can any one tell me the truth, are they faster and reliable doe they use more fuel than 300tdI are the parts dearer, what are the pros and cons.

Faster tuned yes. More reliable .. probably not. Parts cheaper. Generally about the same but abit more complex

You need to install an ecu and associated wiring too though which isnt "easy"

like anything it depends whether you get a good or bad one ,but disco 2 is certainly worth looking at , they are better than 300

I've owned a Td5 and a 300Tdi back to back and I have to say there was a huge leap forward in refinement when they brought out the Td5.

However, while the engine is as tough as a Tdi, there are quite a few issues that need to be addressed to make it reliable. The injector loom leaks engine oil into the ECU- the cause is an o-ring in the loom connector but ideally the injector loom should be replaced with a new OEM one. The injector seals should be replaced every 150k miles or so. The exhaust manifold warps and can snap the manifold bolts - simply remove the manifold heat shield to prevent this, no need to remove the manifold webbing which simply makes the manifold weaker and more susceptible to warping. The fuel line at the tank end can chaff against the chassis and leak, The hydraulic anti roll bars leak along with the pipes corroding - most people rip it off and put conventional antiroll bars on. D2 rear chassis can corrode and need replacement - there doesn't seem to be a pattern as to 'good years' despite what you might read. PAS boxes leak like any other landy. Wheel bearings are part of the hub - you need to change the hub if a bearing wears and its expensive. The extent of computer control in a Td5 is mad - want electric heated seats? They bolt in ok and the wiring is usually there, but you need to program the body ECU to enable them. Ditto spot/fog lamps and heated front screen...

Having said that, the Td5 is easy to tune, and a good remap (Alive Tuning in my case) transforms the truck from a lumbering stodgy beast into something that is surprisingly sprightly. Economy wise my 300Tdi is returning around 30mpg but the Td5 struggled to better 25 - BUT it was heavily modified and had 265 BFG ATs which weigh a ton! Without te mods I'd say she should have been getting closer to 28mpg, so there is a difference but not a huge one. Some Td5 owners report 30-32 averages, so who knows what you might get.

The interiors are almost identical up front spacewise. I reckon there is a tad more rear legroom in a Tdi (and the doors open MUCH wider than a Td5 rear pass door which is quite limited in its opening). But the boot is far smaller in a Tdi which could be a problem if you do a lot of camping as we do - we're having to reorganise everything as we can't get out big fridge in the back without entirely filling the boot lol.

The Tdi is obviously slower, but its a much simpler truck to fix, parts are cheaper as they are common to the RRC and 90/110 in the main. The only bugbear in a Tdi is rust. If you can get rid of the rust and keep it generally rust free, then its a much easier truck to live with IMHO. No ECUs (in the manual - the auto has an engine ECU sadly but you can convert it to be ECU free) which makes it potentially the easiest to fix at the roadside and the easiest to diagnose.

What would I recommend? A Tdi with a D2 body lol. When my Tdi body rots out, thats what I'm planning on doing
HTH

A friend has a TDi300 based kit car, I have a TD5

TD5 is a much nicer engine, he says my D2 is quick!

I would recommend if you buy a D2 buy a suitable code reader as well, Hawkeye or Nanocom, they will pay for themselves very quickly.

Pity LR didn't develop the TD5 into a higher-output Euro5 or 6 compliant engine, it obviously has the mechanical strength to give more output.

By comparision, our Mercedes 614D that we are converting to a motorhome has a 4.25 litre, 4-cylinder diesel, 136hp. It was developed to 177hp I believe, but it has a huge torque output at 1200rpm, something like 520nm so you don't notice the lack of ponies.

If LR had done the same with the TD5 they'd be up to 220hp by now.

A potentially good engine wasted.

Peter

listerdiesel said:

Pity LR didn't develop the TD5 into a higher-output Euro5 or 6 compliant engine, it obviously has the mechanical strength to give more output.

By comparision, our Mercedes 614D that we are converting to a motorhome has a 4.25 litre, 4-cylinder diesel, 136hp. It was developed to 177hp I believe, but it has a huge torque output at 1200rpm, something like 520nm so you don't notice the lack of ponies.

If LR had done the same with the TD5 they'd be up to 220hp by now.

A potentially good engine wasted.

Peter

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Killed off by

1) Not a Fixed Or Repaired Daily engine
2) Unit injectors prevent injection away from power stroke (some Diesels inject now at very strange places to lower emmsions)

ArticFox said:

I've owned a Td5 and a 300Tdi back to back.
The Tdi is obviously slower
HTH

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Would that be back to back with both vehicles being new?

The road tests at the time state that the Tdi manual did a standard 1/4 mile in 20.8 seconds and the Td5 doing it in 19.7 seconds, with autos, the Tdi 21.3 and Td5 19.7 so it's hardly "obviously". The top speed for the Td5 manual/auto was recorded at 98mph so sill no a rocket ship and only 7mph higher than the Tdi.

discool said:

Would that be back to back with both vehicles being new?

The road tests at the time state that the Tdi manual did a standard 1/4 mile in 20.8 seconds and the Td5 doing it in 19.7 seconds, with autos, the Tdi 21.3 and Td5 19.7 so it's hardly "obviously". The top speed for the Td5 manual/auto was recorded at 98mph so sill no a rocket ship and only 7mph higher than the Tdi.

Click to expand...

I have measured my TD5 auto 0-60 as just over 10 seconds. Works out as somewhere in the 140s on bhp. I think mine is loose rather than remapped.

Mine comes in to is own in the 50 to 80mph range then onwards and upwards to 110 and if there's a hill to go down then 120mph, but no faster as the rev limiter cuts in. Autobahn of course

Although im changing the clutch in mine tonight and the DMF is ####ed, which is another additional cost of a TD5

Having had both I found them very similar in standard form as far as performance goes. I upgraded both, the 300 with intercooler replacement and pump adjustments and the TD5 with remap and centre pipe. All the usual mods really. The difference then was pronounced with the TD5 being much better. My TD5 has ACE and that's brilliant and makes it way better then the 300 for normal use. It feels much less ponderous but while mine has been perfect I understand it is expensive to fix. I have not noticed any difference in room in the rear seats but have noticed a bigger boot. The 300 body rotted whereas TD5 s tend to be the chassis. I would personally go for the TD5.