3.9 Classic issues.

Hi Guys,

Just joined up to the site and been reading hundreds of threads trying to find answers to all my problems but had very little luck.

I have just bought a Nov 93 classic vogue se, this is my first ever 4x4 and i am on a massive learning curve so apologise if i ask some daft questions. The RR had a MOT 4 days before i collected it and seemed to drive fine when i drove it back home about 50 miles (boy can they drink the juice though)

I have a few little issues that i hope someone can help with.

1.) On Friday i took her out for a spin, after about 20 miles i stopped at a farm shop to get the better half some flowers, i left my Mum (bought her some flowers too) in the RR whilst i went in. When i came out the car was running very lumpy, the rpm would drop down to about RPM and then pick it's self back up. When i selected reverse the rpm dropped very low and thought it was going to stall but it then picked back up. I drove it home carefully and popped the bonnet. I found 1 plug lead was pretty corroded at the distributer end and the plugs were a bit sooted up. I stuck 8 new plugs in (Bosch super 4) and a new set of Bosch HT Leads. This seemed to have cured the running issues and i did not look any further. What i did notice though was the new lead that went on the coil the rubber boot was larger than the coil out let so there was a gap. Anyhow a couple of days latter whilst driving to work the car stalled on me whilst waiting at a roundabout just after it started to run rough again, she started up fine and i made it to work with no more issues. Last night whilst driving home (about 5 miles) she started running rough again and stalled again, once restarted she seemed to be OK and i made it home. I have not had a chance to look at anything under the bonnet yet so i took my other car to work this AM.

Any one have any suggestion?

2.) i have noticed the last couple of days a smell of petrol at the back, what should i be looking at? and could it be related to the above?

3.) I friend came out in the RR at the weekend and thinks there could be a problem with the front diff. When going around a corner with a lot of lock on the steering and travelling slowly i get a chirp from the inside front wheel, almost like it wants to go faster than it can. Any Ideas?.

4.) Not getting great mileage either, not sure if this is just down to me at the moment learning how to drive it or related to the above. (about 12mpg)

5.) The memory function in the electric seats does not work, the actual seats all work fine along with the mirrors, this is not a big problem just be nice to have. Any Ideas?

6.) Haynes manuals, seem to only go up to 92 plate will one of these cover enough of mine?

Thanks for any help in advance, i really hope i have not bought a dog..

Dean

Welcome mate! sound like a typical classic to me! Forget the haynes book they are rubbish, try and get a download of RAVE, its the proper Land Rover workshop manuals.
The smell from the back could be a corroded fuel pipe as they run on the top of the chassis and sit in water/mud and eventually rust out.
MPG can be anywhere between 12 and 20, dont expect anymore from an old vehicle with a big engine. My old classic was a peach and only managed about 18mpg.
Once you have a manual you can run through the check procedures as there are a number of things that could cause these symptoms.
Change your fuel filter while you are checking your fuel pipes. this should be under the rear drivers wheel arch on top of the chassis.

3.) I friend came out in the RR at the weekend and thinks there could be a problem with the front diff. When going around a corner with a lot of lock on the steering and travelling slowly i get a chirp from the inside front wheel, almost like it wants to go faster than it can. Any Ideas?.

Its likely that your centre differntial Viscous coupling has siezed up.

4.) Not getting great mileage either, not sure if this is just down to me at the moment learning how to drive it or related to the above. (about 12mpg)

Welcome to the V8 club. Thats about the size of it, the best you'll hear honestly quoted is about 14mpg. I always got betwen 11.5 and 12. This may sound like a joke but the best way to improve you consumption is to freewheel down hills I do it all the time now, I have my P38 DSE upto 30mpg. Its not as dodgy as it sounds, autos give you minimal engine braking effort anyway so they have uprated brakes to cope. The autobox allows easy changingin and out of gear (I don't know if this has any longterm ill-affects on the gearbox but I can't see why it would). These heavy old buses freewheel like a demon, I have a 4 mile down hill stretch into my town that I now take at 50mph idling everyday.

5.) The memory function in the electric seats does not work, the actual seats all work fine along with the mirrors, this is not a big problem just be nice to have. Any Ideas?

Check the owners manual on how to set up the memory function

6.) Haynes manuals, seem to only go up to 92 plate will one of these cover enough of mine?

Download the RAVE Manual, its far superior to the Haynes

As for the MPG- remember to drive it lightly. It does make a huge difference if you pull away gently etc. I know its dull and its nice to hear a bit of V8 roar but.... also, get the engine serviced and properly set up by someone who knows about V8's that will make a big difference too.

Thanks Guys,

I have today managed to change the Coil and amplifier disi cap and rotor arm. Have bought a fuel filter but not done that yet as the existing is very manky so i have soaked it all in WD40 to be done tomorrow.

I have come to the conclusion that it is the Viscous coupling after talking to several other people and reading a lot online. Will try the tests tomorrow that have been suggested to see if it is. Just got to work out if my trolley jack will get it high enough to get some axle stands under. If it is what sort of costs should i budget for?.

Whilst i had the bonnet up i thought i would check all the levels, the engine oil was OK but i think the auto fluid might be low. Before i started her up i checked the level and it was a long way above the mark. It says on the tranny dip stick that you should check it with the engine idling and the box in Auto the level was only just showing on the dipstick. I think it could be to low.

I took it out for a test run to see how it was running and it seemed to be OK but after stopping and then starting about 10 minutes later it stalled as soon as i selected reverse. I tried a couple of times and then it ran OK. When i got home and selected reverse to put it on the drive it was fine. Could this be a symptom of the low auto fluid?.

Thanks for the help so far.

Dean

change the ATF if its been run low, easy enough job and cheap £20ish quids worth of atf

I have never had a auto before let alone had to change the fluid, how do i go about changing the fluid?. Do i need anything apart from the fluid?

Dean

Sounds like you have a few niggles to sort. The running problems could be related to the ecu or possibly stepper motor. You say you have bought a new dizzy cap and rotor arm - are they genuine Lucas? Believe me it makes a difference, more expensive-yes but definately worth it.

Petrol smell almost certainly corroded fuel pipes (been there done that as they say!). Is the battery good and strong? Ditto for alternator.

Memory seats, don't know about those but recall reading somewhere there is an ECU for those too.

Low transmission fluid - do as Goonarmy suggested!

Fuel economy - there isn't any, expect 12ish mpg running around and maybe upto 22/3mpg on long motorway runs.

If you have searched the forum you should have all you'll need to know about sorting the niggles of a V8, just remember it's all about the noise!

Just to reinforce what has already been said, the best economy feature on a RR (and on most cars) is you right foot.
My limited experience of Classics would have me disappointed at 12mpg unless it was all stop start traffic, but overjoyed if it approached 20. Twenty plus is not impossible, but I would hope for 16-18 mpg.
I does sound like you have a fuel leak somewhere though.

I was advised to change the distributor on mine to electronic ignition, as it was very lumpy, after a couple of hundered **** miles I took it back, wow different Range Rover.

Andy

Get yourself a manual at The Green Oval - Home

The atf sump is easy to see when under the motor, lowest point, sump plug at the bottom.Drain it, put the sump back in fill through the dipstick-with a funnel.Tools needed spanner/sockect to fit, funnel and atf.You wont drian the lot cos the torque converter keeps some but seeing as yer low it might not keep much. Repeat in 50 odd miles to make sure youve got it all or leave it as that if you wanna asume you got the majority out.

Thanks for the help so far.

Seems the AT fluid was not that low and only took about 3/4 of a litre. Will do a complete change in the next month or so when i have resolved the other issues.

I will have to change the VC or the transfer box, but in the mean time i was wondering if i would do any damage if i was to remove the front prop shaft and run it until i can get the VC sorted?.

If i was to order up a new VC how difficult would it be for me to change it myself. I have spoken to a few garages today and got mixed responses on the work needed, most reckon i will have to change the belt as well, are they just adding work?.

I have scoured ebay and found a few complete transfer boxes second hand from various company that all state they are in good working order. Would i be better trying to change the whole unit and if so is this something that can be done with basic home mechanic tools. I do not have access to lifts. I have trolley jacks, axle stands and drive on ramps. I am restoring a MGB slowly so have some reasonable mechanical skills just lacking knowledge.

I have downloaded the Rave manual and read through bits but find they are aimed at garages with ramps etc.

Dean

Don't forget you have to change the filter and 'O' rings in the auto box when you change the oil! Also the sump gasket...

Once drained, undo the bottom of the dipstick/filler tube, undo the 6 sump bolts and drop it off. Straight forward job specified in the manual (definitely download before doing anything!). Change filter and 'O' rings, put back on and refill...

Shops like paddocks and mm 4x4 sell auto box filter kits with everything you'll need.

Good luck mate.

If your still cutting out and stalling try changing the CTS (coolant temp sensor) It's just above the dizzy and it should be brass coloured with a little plug in it. This was (along with non genuine parts) the problem i had with mine and when it heats up it sends wrong signals to the ECU so can cause it to cut out stall etc.
These are only £8 ish so it's well worth doing also.

SENSOR-TEMPERATURE

Also have to totally agree with getting GENUINE lucas parts. Ye canny beat them. Rotor arm also a must !!!

Running with no front prop is no problem if the VC is already seized, it just improves the fuel economy and makes it understeer more. Its also useless in reverse if you're anywhere off road or hilly.

My viscous coupling on the centre diff also seized about six months ago. Since then I have been driving around with the front prop shaft removed with no apparent ill affects. I have make a concious effort not to "floor it" when in low range because I have been warned this could overstrain the rear diff. Mine is a 1993 200tdi.
I sourced a full replacement transfer box from ebay with a "good" viscous but have been putting it off for ages now. I am hoping to replace it without taking the gearbox out of the vehicle. Was hoping somone has done it before?

Yes, the transfer box can be pulled out-two man job. Budget wise, best bet if you can afford it is to go for a recon/rebuild. Ashcroft (Have a website) in Luton are excellent and will do the donkey work if you want them to. Buying second hand, unless you are 100% that all is well is always a lottery.

OK Guys,

Managed to get a known good transfer box from Anyparts international this morning. Spent the afternoon trying to get the old unit out of the RR.

We got the front and rear props off and everything disconnected. We managed to get all the bolts except one out. The one on the top of the box we just can not get too. It seems to be a stud that goes through both parts but only has a nut on one side. We can get a spanner on this nut but there is no room to move it at all. Seems the only way to get this off is to drop the whole auto box back end down, but not even sure if that is possible as the exhaust is in the way. I am worried about trying to drop the exhaust as i don't want to end up with broken studs.

Any one got a idea?

The other option is to try and remove the viscous unit and put the known good one in instead. I can see how to remove the housing for this but from the Rave cd and manual can not work out how the viscous unit is fixed in side the box. Have i got to remove the the drive flange or will the whole unit come of the back of the transfer box with the viscous unit attached?.

Does the viscous unit just slide in?

Thanks

Dean

Ashcroft tell you how to do this on the site if you click on the Viscous Coupling in the menu.
You don't need to remove the transfer box to change the coupling.
Once you have removed the front housing complete with VC remove the flange nut, pull the flange off then remove the old VC from the rear (Ashcroft use the words 'press it out' so don't know how tight it might be.)