200tdi 90 - snapped tip of glow plug is stuck

Hey guys

Recently got myself a 90 with a 200tdi engine in it. Was a little harsh starting in the cold so thought i'd inspect and change glow plugs. 3 of them, absolutely fine, very worn, so have changed. The final one though... 2nd one from front of engine... has come out absolutely fine, but the tip of the plug has snapped off and is wedged in the engine casing.

Any tips?

I have so far tried:
- Narrow tweezers
- Extendable magnet picker
- Pickup tool/grabber (which I cant find one of small enough to fit down the tiny glow plug hole

Aside from the obvious of pulling off the head to remove it, what can I do?
Im a bit nervous to try and pull it out by glueing it to something...

I have also considered just plugging the top glow plug socket with a bolt of the correct size and pitch, and making a new glow plug link-loom that bypasses it. Aside from it may just start slightly funny, that's not going to damage much is it?

Thanks for any advice!

Ben

Oh, plus I did also turn the engine over to see if the pressure would make it go flying out. It didn't. I guess it's pretty firmly in there then.

Head off is the proper way.

Which is what I fear ... Having done some research it is said that some have had luck by simply leaving the piece stuck in there and driving a few short journeys - heat and movement dislodge it and then it fires out under pressure.
Does that sound vaguely reasonable, and what is the effect of the engine running with the head possibly not sealed on one plug?

Being a lazy bastard I would just run it and see what happens, making sure you carry the new bits with you for a roadside fix.
Most people will tell you a 200 doesnt need glow plugs for cold weather starts and to a point its true but its easier on the motor if they work.

One concern that springs to mind and I may be completely wrong about the layout in the bottom of the plug hole but is there any chance that the broken off bit might get sucked down into the cylinder with disastrous consequences?
I agree fully with the comments re 200 tdi and glow plugs as mine (1993 with 210000 on the clock) starts on the button with no glow plug assistance however cold it is!

DPS59 said:

One concern that springs to mind and I may be completely wrong about the layout in the bottom of the plug hole but is there any chance that the broken off bit might get sucked down into the cylinder with disastrous consequences?
I agree fully with the comments re 200 tdi and glow plugs as mine (1993 with 210000 on the clock) starts on the button with no glow plug assistance however cold it is!

Click to expand...

I agree that has to be taken into consideration, if it gets pulled in might knacker the piston or more.
I read a few threads where people have run around for a while with the broken tip in the head and it has blown out, wouldn't like to have the bonnet up when it let go.

Did the same trick of just running it with a stuck injector some years ago and forgot to put catch sack over motor,Like Elvis the injector left the building. Still an injector shaped hole in workshop roof as a reminder.

Would think the chances of the tip going into the motor is slim as with a turbo motor there is positive pressure in the cylinder most of the time except at start up.

Well, it's going to be pushing out harder than it's sucking in, so the likelihood is that it'll come out. If I were doing this I'd carry a spare glow plug so I could screw it in as soon as the engine started sounding rough, so it didn't wear the engine as a result of uneven running.

Soak with plusgas put a rag over plug position to catch it and run engine and hope. Only way to do it without removing head.

tottot said:

Would think the chances of the tip going into the motor is slim as with a turbo motor there is positive pressure in the cylinder most of the time except at start up.

Click to expand...

Beat me to it.

Like I said I'm not familiar with the geometry of the bits but just thought it worth asking the question
Better to ask a silly question and prompt a discussion which may end in a better solution than to keep quiet and see something go wrong that need not have done.

Thanks for your help folks. Im unfortunately away on work until Sunday but next week, my efforts will be continued!

I've been weighing up what to do - as I really don't want to knacker the engine over it. It sounds like the chances of it falling in are pretty unlikely. I've got some penetrating oil sitting in the plug hole right now while I'm away, and when I return i'll run it to temp and hopefully it shoots out. I've been very careful to leave a rag over it for when it goes.

I did speak with Keith Gott about the issue and what is likely to happen is that I risk the 30 min drive over to them. At this point one of a few things happen... Either it comes out and potentially dents my bonnet from the inside (I am totally fine with this!), or I arrive at Keith Gott with it still stuck in there. They are willing to do an inspection and see if they can remove it, for a half hour rate. If they can't get it out i'm likely to leave it with them for the head removal and rebuild. Potentially with them doing a cam belt change on it as well just so I know it's all up to date and sorted all at once.

For those that have had luck running the engine in... how long have you had to do it for? Enough for up to temp thermal expansion I would assume? So a 30 min drive should do it?

(Of course, i'll be carrying the new glow plug... so as soon as I get a 'bang' I will pull over and investigate/install the new glow plug/go get a pint and celebrate not paying for a head rebuild. And order a full roll cage for the vehicle instead!)

Hi ben
when you took the glow plug out I take it snapped below the threads ? & you ended up with a glow plug with the heater element & no cover ? cover left in head !
If that's the case I had this happen to me a number of years ago & I didn't fancy taking the head off !
So I tapped it out with a m6 tap then I found a bit of tube & m6 bolt & drew it out of cyl head

Hope this helps
Steve

Magicgrotto said:

Hi ben
when you took the glow plug out I take it snapped below the threads ? & you ended up with a glow plug with the heater element & no cover ? cover left in head !
If that's the case I had this happen to me a number of years ago & I didn't fancy taking the head off !
So I tapped it out with a m6 tap then I found a bit of tube & m6 bolt & drew it out of cyl head

Hope this helps
Steve

Click to expand...

Steve no not exactly ... What is not in this pic is what is still in the top of the glow plug orifice...

http://i.imgur.com/zis0WYC.jpg[/IMG
To be clear the outer 10mm cover is removed fine. The tip of the centre 'spike' is whah has its last inch or so stuck in it
Does that make sense? All that is left in the engine is a little tip.

Just been in shed ben & rooted some glow plugs out now I see wot you mean !
The one that broke on me broke just below the threads but all the inner core came out, thus allowing me to tape a thread into it .
So your's has unscrewed with the cover still on but left the heater tip in the head ?
Bugger Like others have said run it up & hope heat & compression blow it out

Regards Steve

Can't wait to see what happens with this one. I'd expect it to fire out on a nice run up to temp