2002 disco TD5 auto: auto problem? oil?

Hello,

I've bought a discovery II 10/2002 TD5 2 weeks ago.
Never driven an auto before.
Therefore I didn't see this coming, but my auto box seems not to be in great shape.

When I set off, the revs go to a certain level (depending in the amount of pedal depression - ofcourse), an kind of stay's there.
I mean it's like a manual where your clutch is slipping.
When it gets to some kmh, it changes gear, dropping some revs, but still "slipping" etc.
At higher speeds it seems to be better.
It goes ok when not given much gas, but when given more gas (and I don't even mean flooring it) it gets to more rpm and accelerates.

As told, as I have never driven automatic, I didn't seem to find it a problem when buying the car, because it still goes...not like my small sedan...but I tought: hey it's a 2 ton car, it's "normal".

What could it be?
As I've just bought the car, still waiting to yet my haynes manual in...

Any ideas?

Can I damage anything if I drive it a bit like this? (I have to get to work) while trying to find the problem

I have done more than a fair things on other cars, but never on a LR, and never owned a automatic... :-(

Thanks,
Koen Delvaux
Belgium
PS: sorry if my english is not perfect, as I'm from Belgium, english is "only" our 3th language

stormy_be said:

Hello,

I've bought a discovery II 10/2002 TD5 2 weeks ago.
Never driven an auto before.
Therefore I didn't see this coming, but my auto box seems not to be in great shape.

When I set off, the revs go to a certain level (depending in the amount of pedal depression - of course), and kind of stay's there.
I mean it's like a manual where your clutch is slipping.
When it gets to some kmh, it changes gear, dropping some revs, but still "slipping" etc.
At higher speeds it seems to be better.
It goes ok when not given much gas, but when given more gas (and I don't even mean flooring it) it gets to more rpm and accelerates.

As told, as I have never driven automatic, I didn't seem to find it a problem when buying the car, because it still goes...not like my small sedan...but I tought: hey it's a 2 ton car, it's "normal".

What could it be?
As I've just bought the car, still waiting to yet my haynes manual in...

Any ideas?

Can I damage anything if I drive it a bit like this? (I have to get to work) while trying to find the problem

I have done more than a fair things on other cars, but never on a LR, and never owned a automatic... :-(

Thanks,
Koen Delvaux
Belgium
PS: sorry if my english is not perfect, as I'm from Belgium, english is "only" our 3th language

Click to expand...

Bonjour Koen, ça va?

From the way you describe the operation of your gearbox, all sounds perfectly normal, however I will suggest some specific things you can check in a moment.

Just for background info, an automatic gearbox has something inside it called a Torque Converter (TC) and it is this that kind of acts as a clutch, to allow the gearbox to change it's gears.

Below 85kph when "D" is selected and below about 75kph in "3", the TC is always slightly slipping as part of it's design - above these speeds and gears the gearbox goes into TC "lockup" mode, where the slipping stops and you have what will feel like direct drive comparable to a 5th gear in a manual gearbox.

Specific tests:

Find a piece of open road without too much traffic and speed limits. Bring the car to a halt, with the engine running;

When safe to do so, move off with "D" selected using half throttle pedal and note the gear changes. You will start off in first gear and it will work it's way through automatically until about 75kph when you will be in fourth gear which is the highest gear.

Continue to build speed up to and past 85kph and then ease back on the throttle slightly and feel for what is like another gear change. This is not a gear change but the autobox going into TC lockup mode. The speed this happens will vary with road speed, amount of throttle, type of road (flat or hilly) towing or not, so don't worry if TC lockup doesn't happen on your vehicle at exactly 85kph, it might be 90kph - if you understand me.

Incidently, with a cold engine, the gearbox recieves signals from the main ECU that the engine is cold so the gears hang on a little more before changing, to help the engine warm up quicker. It will also not go into TC lockup until the gearbox oil is warmed through.

I hope that gives you something to think about,

Salut

David

Hello,

Thank for the test.
I'll do this tonight and I'll try to post a small film of what happens exactly.
This would make it also more clear what I mean.

When I've seen sales vid's on youtube of other automatic cars, they seem to go up the revs easily, not get up there and stay there for the speed to build up.

Regards, Koen

stormy_be said:

Thank for the test.
......
When I've seen sales vid's on youtube of other automatic cars, they seem to go up the revs easily, not get up there and stay there for the speed to build up.

Click to expand...

The test is worth doing. My disco behaves like you describe, and has done so for the two years I have owned it. I suspect there's nothing to worry about.

The lock-up at around 85 kph is very noticeable when you are used to it. On a level road, if you watch the rev counter, you'll see it drop from around 2750 to 2200 as the lock up occurs.

At slower speeds, the almost constant revs as you accelerate is normal. I've owned other autos, and they all do it to some extent, but the Disco is the most marked like this that I have had.

Simon

So you just give a constant amount of rev's and the Torque Converter does the rest?

I thought that with an autobox, the rev's still go as on a manual gearbox, but with the gearchanges (and drops in rev's) automaticaly.

Koen

Yes, revs are pretty constant and the TC does most of the work. Gearchanges occur with almost no rev drop. It's the lock-up in 4th at 85+ km/h (when engine warm) that is the only really noticeable drop in revs.

Mine does this too, never seems to go above 40mph when cold and then as the TC kicks in all is well.

But mine also seems to act odd at lights or if i free wheel (in gear just no gas) i can go to pull away and nothing happens straight away if i ease off the gas you feel the car "engage" gear and pull, is this normal as I think me box is on its way out at 97k miles?

BIG MATT said:

Mine does this too, never seems to go above 40mph when cold and then as the TC kicks in all is well.
i can go to pull away and nothing happens straight away if i ease off the gas you feel the car "engage" gear and pull, is this normal as I think me box is on its way out at 97k miles?
But mine also seems to act odd at lights or if i free wheel (in gear just no gas)

Click to expand...

Hi Big Matt, that doesn't sound right, but might be doing it if you are a little too gentle when taking up drive to move forward.

May I suggest you try doing it with a little more "gusto" (more umph!!) and see how she reacts?

Thanks BigLad for the quick reply, my worry is that i know its not right and by giving a bit of welly might damage more.

Anyone in the Coventry area that can have a drive of it and compare notes so to speak?

Cheers all.

BIG MATT said:

...my worry is that i know its not right and by giving a bit of welly might damage more.

Click to expand...

Fear you may be right mate. The failure to pull away with a light throttle doesn't sound at all like mine.

If I am sitting, box in D, foot brake on, there's never any hesitation in moving away on the flat, even with no throttle. Pick up is very smooth with some acceleration.

On the other hand, I do have an Omega auto, which does much as you describe. And I am sure the box is knackered. But, although it is slowly getting worse, it has been like this for three years. So perhaps your Disco is not about to halt immediately . . . . . But I think you need it checked properly.

BIG MATT said:

Thanks BigLad for the quick reply, my worry is that i know its not right and by giving a bit of welly might damage more.

Anyone in the Coventry area that can have a drive of it and compare notes so to speak?

Cheers all.

Click to expand...

I didn't mean floor it to destruction, just give it a bit more.

Have you checked the gearbox oil level recently? If not do that and topup as necc with Dexron III atf.

I have to say that when I'm on a really flat surface (I mean no incline), and in D, without applying brakes it starts running...so no problem there I think.

anybody any doc on how the Torque Convertor works?
(I always want to learn )

Thanks,
Koen

stormy_be said:

anybody any doc on how the Torque Convertor works?
(I always want to learn )

Click to expand...

Your could try Torque converter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which explains well the behaviour when stationary, accelerating, and the lock-up possible when cruising.

simonvfr said:

Your could try Torque converter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which explains well the behaviour when stationary, accelerating, and the lock-up possible when cruising.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the link Simon, it was interesting if on occasion, complicated reading.

Thanks for the link.

Didn't know if it is always the same.
A Land Rover sometimes has some "special" features other vehicles don't

stormy_be said:

Thanks for the link.

Didn't know if it is always the same.
A Land Rover sometimes has some "special" features other vehicles don't

Click to expand...

Yes, it does, in low range. Read your owners manual carefully if you intend to drive it off road!

I don't intent to use it off road (or not much - if you get to some obstruction, yes it can be used, but then it's only for a couple of minutes)
I do intent to use it for towing a car-trailor (trailering my AC).
Anything special to foresee for that?

Koen

stormy_be said:

I don't intent to use it off road (or not much - if you get to some obstruction, yes it can be used, but then it's only for a couple of minutes)
I do intent to use it for towing a car-trailor (trailering my AC).
Anything special to foresee for that?

Koen

Click to expand...

Hi Koen, I've just noticed that you are at Ypres. I was there last year as part of my First World War battle sites tour.

The Menin Gate was very moving at 8pm, with a lone trumpet player.

Anyway, towing a load of perhaps 2000kgs, with an autobox:

1. Use "3" often, if you are travelling at below about 90kph and on smaller roads, as it will go into TC lockup at below 80 and therefore help to keep the oil in the 'box cooler;

2. If you haven't already done so, change the oil in the autobox;

3. To improve towing capabilities of the engine, have you de-EGR'd and de-catted it? These will also improve fuel consumption.

4. Put in a new air filter. LR's are very hungry for air, so need a good unclogged airfilter.

thebiglad said:

Hi Koen, I've just noticed that you are at Ypres. I was there last year as part of my First World War battle sites tour.

The Menin Gate was very moving at 8pm, with a lone trumpet player.

Anyway, towing a load of perhaps 2000kgs, with an autobox:

1. Use "3" often, if you are travelling at below about 90kph and on smaller roads, as it will go into TC lockup at below 80 and therefore help to keep the oil in the 'box cooler;

2. If you haven't already done so, change the oil in the autobox;

3. To improve towing capabilities of the engine, have you de-EGR'd and de-catted it? These will also improve fuel consumption.

4. Put in a new air filter. LR's are very hungry for air, so need a good unclogged airfilter.

Click to expand...

As I only bought my discovery 2 weeks ago, no these things have not been done (yet).
What type of oil should be used anyway? It is "normal autobox oil"/atf ?
Might there be oil that doesn't overheat that easy?
Would it be an option to increase capacity on the oil-cooler (I suppose it has one - haven't checked yet)

Koen

stormy_be said:

As I only bought my discovery 2 weeks ago, no these things have not been done (yet).
What type of oil should be used anyway? It is "normal autobox oil"/atf ?
Might there be oil that doesn't overheat that easy?
Would it be an option to increase capacity on the oil-cooler (I suppose it has one - haven't checked yet)

Koen

Click to expand...

If the vehicle is running correctly, it should not need extra oil cooling to tow 2000kgs. The std oil is Dexron III and you will need at least 5ltrs, but some users reckon there is benefit in using higher quality (read more expensive) fully synthetic autobox oil. I don't use it myself but I do change the 'box oil once a year or 20,000 kms.