P38A 2000 EDC Bad Starting

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pwood999

pwood999

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Need some guidance from the Diesel experts out there. A local guy & his son stopped by today to see if I could figure out his problem. He's had the P38 since 2002 & it generally seems well looked after.

My Nanocom doesn't yet have EDC license so could not read it. I have ordered the EDC license, but BBS haven't processed it yet.

Symptoms are takes long time to fire up both cold & warmed up. Seems to run ok once it starts. Battery does seem knackered. It's an Exide 110AH from Halfrauds. 12.2V when off & 13.8V when running, but quickly drops back to 12.2 after engine off. Voltage when cranking drops to 10.6V so def needs replacing.

Did a couple of videos. Any ideas while I'm waiting for my EDC license ??

Air bubbles in fule line ?? Doesn't look right to me.


Slow starting
 
That starter speed is good, I'd look under thé car near thé fuel tank, if it's damp looking it's leaking diesel from the top pipes on the fuel pump, also bridge the fuel pump relay and listen into the fuel tank. No noise, no pump. 👍 check around the fip head and body for leaks as well. 🤔
At that age it may need seals and I tank pump doing if it's never been done🙌
Part of the "normal things to do at that age" list.
 
Apparently the tank pump was replaced, but they were vague about how long ago. It has all the engine covers in place so could not see the FIP properly. TBH I'm not that familiar with this diesel lump !!
 
The pipes rust just as they come out the intank pump and leak or let air in. There should be no air in the clear pipe going to the fip. 3 bolts hold the cover on over the rocker cover then it can be slid out to look at the fip and leak offs easier. Any wetness around the leak offs will also let the fuel drain back and give air bubbles in the clear line. Leak offs are cheap to renew, get gates brand 3.2mm inside diameter.
Hopefully, although I won't do it, someone has cut the boot floor to access the intank pump so a check there is easier. Damp tank sides is the first sign of rusty pump connections.
 
Leak off pipes are a possibility. Needs a Mobiletron regulator if it's only charging at 13,8 volts and that will be why the battery is not too good. First place I tend to look is the modulation. Also check for sufficient fuel flow at the filter.
 
Thanks for the suggestions guys. Next step will be diagnostics when I get my EDC license & check the stuff above as well.
 
Datatek said:
Leak off pipes are a possibility. Needs a Mobiletron regulator if it's only charging at 13,8 volts and that will be why the battery is not too good. First place I tend to look is the modulation. Also check for sufficient fuel flow at the filter.
Click to expand...

+1.

Leak off pipes and then take the fuel filter off and check in-tank pump is delivering enough fuel.

Check the glow plugs as well. Beru are best in my opinion.

After that check the static timing on the fuel injection pump using a dial guage in the first instance.

Is the pipe from the fuel filter to the underside of the inlet manifold in place and sound? Probably won't affect starting but might affect power when driving.
 
So he popped round again this morning & had another look. As I don't have a dial-gauge & zero familiarity of the FIP, etc I'm not gonna risk touching that.

Checked underneath and no obvious leaks from tank pipes. All the fittings appear to be sealed ok as far as I can see.
Checked both ends of all the leak-off pipes, and no signs of fuel leaks, so I'm guessing there's no air getting in there.
Did Nanocom screenshots & recording of live fueling data - see below
Did not have time to unplug the fuel line into the filter to check flow there.

None of the fueling readings vary much when I revved the engine to 2000rpm.

1744970778611.png


IMG_2282.JPG
IMG_2283.JPG
IMG_2284.JPG
 
Timing modulation is miles out if done on a stinking hot engine, usually results in bad hot starts.
Bad cold starts with air leaks a possible cause can be seen by observing the clear pipe to the fip whilst someone cranks- you'll see air rushing through until it fires, that pipe should have air free fuel in it at all times.
 
Modulation should be circa 50%, you can set it with tools and the nano, no need for a dti. Keith has a method, I've used his method and also done it on a mates car with a running engine and moving the fip whilst observing the nano. Loads quicker but ......worked out OK.
 
Didn't see the video before. Air in fuel is not right at all. As you have checked the obvious I would change the filter, might be fuel starvation because its plugged up.
It might also have a bad filter seal. There are two types of filter, early ones had 2 seals on the filter itself, later only have one, the other seal on the later type is permanently in the filter head itself. Fitting the wrong filter MAY cause air ingress??
 
ok. It's a 2000 car so my guess would be the later filter, so good one to try next.

For the FIP adjustment any links to photos or video on what to loosen & adjust ? The procedure in RAVE seems to be quite involved. Do all the injector pipes actually have to be slackened ?
 
pwood999 said:
ok. It's a 2000 car so my guess would be the later filter, so good one to try next.

For the FIP adjustment any links to photos or video on what to loosen & adjust ? The procedure in RAVE seems to be quite involved. Do all the injector pipes actually have to be slackened ?
Click to expand...
PM me with an email address and I will send you my FIP timing info. I have always found it necessary to undo the pipes at the injectors to move the pump. The FIP bolts are obvious if you look. Modulation should be 50% with an engine temperature of 95C.
 
Last edited:
pwood999 said:
ok. It's a 2000 car so my guess would be the later filter, so good one to try next.

For the FIP adjustment any links to photos or video on what to loosen & adjust ? The procedure in RAVE seems to be quite involved. Do all the injector pipes actually have to be slackened ?
Click to expand...
You need a cranked 12mm ring spanner for the fip. Inlet manifold nuts are m8 flanged, mine were a mix of 12mm and 13mm socket sizes, I replaced them all with 13mm flange nuts from screwfix.
I dropped one or two of those nuts and never found them again. Be careful replacing the manifold as it's easy to trap the leak offs and possibly number 4 injector wiring. Manifold seals are O rings and can be reused if ok. There is a steady bracket on the rear of the pump which needs removing or slacken off, I forget which, and an electrical plug down there needs unplugging to access the bolt of that bracket.
Access to leak offs and glowplugs is much easier with the manifold off too if thinking of renewing them?
If you struggle to get the engine temperature up between pump movements and nanocom checking(I did in the middle of winter and I couldn't drive it, no tax, mot, insurance) unscrew the viscous fan(clockwise for diesel) I then held it forward, away from the engine using a piece of 2"x1" wedged in there from above. I seem to recall, it was a few yrs ago though, that the fan wouldn't come out easily hence tucking it forward out the way and the wood held it there securely. Gets hot right quick then.
 
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