200 TDi Sluggish

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cheese_aholic

New Member
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40
Location
Grantham
Hi all.
Newbie here!
I have a Series 2a with a 200 TDi engine in (I know - I didn't do it!)
Anyhoo, it us running very sluggishly, esp when it gets warm.
I've narrowed it down to a fuel issue, possibly starvation / air getting in the line somewhere.
I've replaced the fuel filter and some of the pipework, but no improvement.
My next thought is the fuel lift pump - what does this do exactly (I get the idea as the clue is in the name) but how does it work etc?
Is this likely to be causing my problems?
They're not that expensive to buy - is it a big job to replace it?
Thanks for your help,
Cheese
 
I have a Series 2a with a 200 TDi engine in (I know - I didn't do it!)

What are you on about - that's an excellent conversion for a 2a!

I've not had the lift pump to bits on mine, but I'd imagine it has a diaphragm driven by a cam and a couple of valves, which suck the fuel up from the tank. You could check it's working properly by disconnecting the fuel inlet to the injection pump and cranking the engine over. Fuel should gush out of the pipe. Have you ruled out some kind of problem with the turbo boost pressure. Could one of the hoses have a leak. Is the wastgate actuator working? There is a pipe from the turbo pipework which runs to the injector pump which monitors the boost pressure and increases the fuelling to match the boost pressure. Is that pipe O.K.? Plumbing in a boost guage will help.
 
Thanks.
I think (!) the turbo / air pipes are OK. I have checked for leaks best I can, but will double check.
I'm definately getting air in the fuel lines from somewhere, as I increase revs I can see more and more bubbles coming through!
Time to do some investigation of the pipes, but fuel lift pump seems obvious place to start - there's only that between the tank and the filter!
Cheers
 
Nice one - sounds simple!
I will replace it soon as - the little handle on the side of mine does nothing so I'm guessing due for replacement anyway.
Hopefully this will sort the air 'leak' as well...
Keep you posted...
Thanks for all your help.
 
Sniff the dipstick.
If the diaphragm has failed int pump, then theres a good chance that diesel is leaking into the sump and the dippo will stink of it, also the oil level will be rising.
I had a problem with my 300tdi, the return pipe to the tank was not below fuel level, air was getting into the system, but if yours has been ok till now it probably wont be that.
 
Replaced fuel lift pump and seems to have solved the problem!
Also replaced the fuel filter and some of the old fuel lines.
How do I check if the wastegate actuator is working OK?
I can't move it by hand - is that a bad sign?
 
If you can feel the turbo pull then the wastegate isnt seized in the bypass position, the only effective way to know its working 100% is to fit a boost pressure guage, but if the old girl drives ok than its probably fine.
 
Thanks - I got a spanner on it and it moved OK, so I guess that's fine.
Boost Gauge arrived today - will get that fitted over the weekend and see what she's generating.
Did an hour round trip today and still not convinced she's pulling as strongly as she should; almost feels like there's no turbo there (but I can hear it spooling up so I now it's doing something!)
I'll report back with the boost findings when I know...
 
It appears I'm getting 0.5 Bar boost pressure at best!
This is measured at the turbo (T piece in the pipe between the turbo and the wastegate actuator)
Even getting this is hard work - initially it was registering barely 0.1 Bar until I stopped and revved the engine quite hard. After that it got up to the 0.5 Bar
Any thoughts?
 
If you take the hose off the front of the turbo you can see the turbine. You should be able to spin it freely with your finger or something longer, there should also be no wobble in the it. With the engine off obviously!!
 
It appears I'm getting 0.5 Bar boost pressure at best!
This is measured at the turbo (T piece in the pipe between the turbo and the wastegate actuator)
Even getting this is hard work - initially it was registering barely 0.1 Bar until I stopped and revved the engine quite hard. After that it got up to the 0.5 Bar
Any thoughts?

Are you measuring the boost under load, or with the vehicle stationary? You can rev your engine as hard as you like whilst it's stationary and the waste gate arm will not budge, nor will you get a very accurate boost reading. The waste gate actuator arm will move when the engine is under load to ensure that the preset boost is maintained, rather than allowing the turbo to continue producing more and more boost. You can check to see that the waste gate actuator arm is free. Take a pair of mole grips and clamp them onto the flat edge of the arm that pivots on the exhaust manifold. Then push your mole grips towards the bulkhead (opening the waste gate) and it should move quite freely. If it was stiff, or if there isn't no movement at all, the spring has either seized, or the mechanism is jammed. It should automatically spring back towards the turbo. Work the arm a bit t free it up and it might be worth giving it a bit of lubrication. Oil will eventually burn off, but it will work its way into the mechanism and the pivots to free it up if its been a little stiff.

If your waste gate is working properly, the boost gauge will reach a maximum figure (not sure what it is) and it should not exceed that. It should drop every time you come off the throttle or dip the clutch. If it continues boosting then the waste gate isn't opening and you might end up popping an intercooler hose or bursting your intercooler assembly.

As for what 'jmattely' said about movement in the compressor, it's not true that there should be no movement. There WILL be slight (but not excessive) movement up down, left and right. The compressor works on a 'wet' bearing that is made when oil is forced into the compressor housing race, via the oil pump. When the engine is off, there is no pressurised oil in the compressor housing and therefore the bearing "collapses" as so to speak, allowing the spindle to jiggle slightly.

As for the whole 'sluggish' issue, ensure that the insides of your intercooler pipes have not delaminated, or that the inside of the CAF (cold air feed) pipe between the air filter and the turbo inlet has not collapsed. If the inside of the pipe is 'flappy' or delaminated (not always easy to tell), the pipe will be sucked shut and thus the engine will be starved of air, creating poor performance and lots of black smoke. Have you swapped your air filter? Cleaning your intercooler out with paint thinners will also work wonders. The intercooler may have become gunked up with oil (from the cyclone breather) over time, which reduces air flow through the intercooler matrix.

-Pos
 
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The Haynes manual says the max boost pressure should be between 0.8 and 1.0 bar for the Discovery 200Tdi. It says that if the boost is not as specified then it is likely there is a fault with the turbocharger wastegate and the problem should be investigated by a Land-Rover dealer. It might be worth posting in the Discovery or Defender section on this subject - I don't have much experience of turbos myself, but if I had a similar problem I'd be checking that the wastgate lever is returning to the closed position properly. There is an adjustable lenth rod between the actuator and the valve. Could somebody have been messing with it and set it to the wrong length? Another thing you could try would be to apply some air pressure to the actuator and see if it's doing what it's supposed to do at the right pressure.
 
Thanks both of you for your replies.
I don't actually have an intercooler (the previous owner decided to fit power steering instead so no room for the traditional IC)
The boost figure I gave of 0.5 bar is under load (full throttle up a hill).
The actuator arms moves OK with a spanner for leverage, and seems to return to starting position when I release it. It's firm but doesn't seem stiff... I'll try a bit of oil to see if that helps...
I'll also try applying some air pressure to it via a tyre inflator and see if it moves...
I'll also check the hoses but at first inspection they seem OK.
Couldn't say ref someone else adjusting the length of the arm - any idea what it's supposed to be??
 
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