19J- is it at last dead?

FlyingPete · Dec 5, 2016

As mentioned in my other thread (https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/poorly-19j-conversion-questions.308587/) I'm having trouble with my old TD, and this time it may be serious. Pop the oil filler cap off and it sounds and looks like a steam engine- lots of smoke chuffing through from the rocker cover. None of any significance from the breather pipe to the back of the block though.

So, I think I've narrowed it down to a couple of possibilities, in rough order of finality-
- cracked block, between a cylinder bore and a pushrod bore, hence the pressure escaping up that way.
- cracked piston. Doesn't seem as likely as surely there'd be more pressure in the bottom end?
- valve oil seal that's come adrift. Not inconceivable given that it was me who rebuilt the head
- Head gasket. Shouldn't be, since the head's been off earlier this year to rebuild it.

Any other possibles? Is it worth putting much more time and effort into it or is it better to think about converting?

Turboman · Dec 5, 2016

FlyingPete said:
As mentioned in my other thread (https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/poorly-19j-conversion-questions.308587/) I'm having trouble with my old TD, and this time it may be serious. Pop the oil filler cap off and it sounds and looks like a steam engine- lots of smoke chuffing through from the rocker cover. None of any significance from the breather pipe to the back of the block though.

So, I think I've narrowed it down to a couple of possibilities, in rough order of finality-
- cracked block, between a cylinder bore and a pushrod bore, hence the pressure escaping up that way.
- cracked piston. Doesn't seem as likely as surely there'd be more pressure in the bottom end?
- valve oil seal that's come adrift. Not inconceivable given that it was me who rebuilt the head
- Head gasket. Shouldn't be, since the head's been off earlier this year to rebuild it.

Any other possibles? Is it worth putting much more time and effort into it or is it better to think about converting?

Head gasket or cracked piston are most likely, both should be obvious with head off.

Was the head flat when you put it back on.

David_Cooper · Dec 5, 2016

It's 'probably' the head gasket... but I really wouldn't waste any more time on it if it were me. I don't think I've ever seen a healthy one. I'm sure they're out there, but..

My 19J did 19mpg the last time I used it. I think they all suffer from worn or cracked pistons, even if they look ok at a glance.
Just remember, a 200Tdi will use half the fuel and go twice as better

Turboman · Dec 5, 2016

And are you sure swirl protrusion was right? If they stick up too much, gasket will blow again very quickly.

Turboman · Dec 5, 2016

David_Cooper said:
It's 'probably' the head gasket... but I really wouldn't waste any more time on it if it were me. I don't think I've ever seen a healthy one. I'm sure they're out there, but..
My 19J did 19mpg the last time I used it. I think they all suffer from worn or cracked pistons, even if they look ok at a glance.
Just remember, a 200Tdi will use half the fuel and go twice as better

It probably wasnt well set up, you should get 25 around town, unless your driving style is very fuel heavy.

I will get you a pic of a healthy one in a minute!

FlyingPete · Dec 5, 2016

Turboman said:
Head gasket or cracked piston are most likely, both should be obvious with head off.

Was the head flat when you put it back on.

Head was a replacement item which I rebuilt before swapping it for the original. Followed the procedure and all seemed well before the swap.

Considering a 200tdi if I can gather all the bits together, if not, possibly a petrol lump.

Turboman · Dec 5, 2016

Here ya go.
30k from new, engine had just been fitted when I bought it. PO had totalled the old one in a spectacular runaway caused by a knackered turbocharger.

Turboman · Dec 5, 2016

FlyingPete said:
Head was a replacement item which I rebuilt before swapping it for the original. Followed the procedure and all seemed well before the swap.

Considering a 200tdi if I can gather all the bits together, if not, possibly a petrol lump.

Did you check all over with a known straight edge, and how did you check the hotspot protrusion?

David_Cooper · Dec 5, 2016

Nice looking 19J, that. Mine was a little oily-er

Turboman · Dec 5, 2016

Another one for @David_Cooper

Turboman · Dec 5, 2016

David_Cooper said:
Nice looking 19J, that. Mine was a little oily-er

Most I have seen are. Not a good sign!

I have found it to be fine for what I do, farm work, and a bit of local mileage, odd laning trip. I wouldnt dream of using it for long distance, or a commuter car.

David_Cooper · Dec 5, 2016

We tend to have 3T trailers behind our two and the 19J was often down to 20mph up hill with a load on the back! Both are 110 CSW, one has a 200Tdi, the other - Arles Blue like yours, is a 'work in progress'

Turboman · Dec 5, 2016

David_Cooper said:
We tend to have 3T trailers behind our two and the 19J was often down to 20mph up hill with a load on the back! Both are 110 CSW, one has a 200Tdi, the other - Arles Blue like yours, is a 'work in progress'

Err, only some of mine is blue!

Doors are off 2 unrelated vehicles, one black one white.

I have towed a 2700kg cattle trailer with that, all the way to Surrey on one occasion. Got fed up with it after a bit, got myself a D2 V8 Auto.

Turboman · Dec 5, 2016

@FlyingPete, tell me about your hotspot protrusion?

jamesmartin · Dec 5, 2016

FlyingPete said:
As mentioned in my other thread (https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/poorly-19j-conversion-questions.308587/) I'm having trouble with my old TD, and this time it may be serious. Pop the oil filler cap off and it sounds and looks like a steam engine- lots of smoke chuffing through from the rocker cover. None of any significance from the breather pipe to the back of the block though.

So, I think I've narrowed it down to a couple of possibilities, in rough order of finality-
- cracked block, between a cylinder bore and a pushrod bore, hence the pressure escaping up that way.
- cracked piston. Doesn't seem as likely as surely there'd be more pressure in the bottom end?
- valve oil seal that's come adrift. Not inconceivable given that it was me who rebuilt the head
- Head gasket. Shouldn't be, since the head's been off earlier this year to rebuild it.

Any other possibles? Is it worth putting much more time and effort into it or is it better to think about converting?

lots of smoke chuffing from filler could be a cracked piston,bottom end and rocker box are directly linked ,rear block breather goes to the rear of cam, valve stem seals dont cause that ,piston ,hg or unopening fully valve is most likely, blocks generally crack to water way and signs show in header tank

FlyingPete · Dec 5, 2016

Turboman said:
@FlyingPete, tell me about your hotspot protrusion?

Hotspots were checked with feeler gauges to judge the protrusion- bit of a bodge I know but were lower than the limit so assumed they were fine.

jamesmartin said:
lots of smoke chuffing from filler could be a cracked piston,bottom end and rocker box are directly linked ,rear block breather goes to the rear of cam, valve stem seals dont cause that ,piston ,hg or unopening fully valve is most likely, blocks generally crack to water way and signs show in header tank

Presumably a valve not fully opening would be a more gradual thing. Up until last week it all seemed fine. Will check the coolant for exhaust. It's always leaked a bit of oil from the rear crank seal, usually after a fast run so there could have been a small crack for a long time that only opened up when hot. There was quite a lot of smoke coming out of the filler cap...

jamesmartin · Dec 5, 2016

FlyingPete said:
Hotspots were checked with feeler gauges to judge the protrusion- bit of a bodge I know but were lower than the limit so assumed they were fine.

Presumably a valve not fully opening would be a more gradual thing. Up until last week it all seemed fine. Will check the coolant for exhaust. It's always leaked a bit of oil from the rear crank seal, usually after a fast run so there could have been a small crack for a long time that only opened up when hot. There was quite a lot of smoke coming out of the filler cap...

often sudden if rod bends or punches through the follower etc

Turboman · Dec 5, 2016

Should be a dial gauge, but so long as it isnt sticking up a long way, gasket should have survived.
Head off should reveal all, if the block dont appear to be cracked.

FlyingPete · Dec 5, 2016

Turboman said:
Should be a dial gauge, but so long as it isnt sticking up a long way, gasket should have survived.
Head off should reveal all, if the block dont appear to be cracked.

Will hold fire on getting a new motor just yet then. Just been and looked in the header tank and the coolant is clean and no pressure- hopefully this means the block hasn't cracked (to a waterway anyway). Going to take the head off in the next couple of days and see where/if the head gasket has gone. Suspect it's failed between a cylinder and a pushrod bore.

Turboman · Dec 6, 2016

FlyingPete said:
Will hold fire on getting a new motor just yet then. Just been and looked in the header tank and the coolant is clean and no pressure- hopefully this means the block hasn't cracked (to a waterway anyway). Going to take the head off in the next couple of days and see where/if the head gasket has gone. Suspect it's failed between a cylinder and a pushrod bore.

That is where the gasket often fails. Just removing the rocker box cover will reveal bent pushrod or stuck valve.

19J- is it at last dead?

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