1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Welcome To LandyZone!

    LandyZone is the biggest Land Rover forum on the net. We have plenty of very knowledgable members so if you have any questions about your Land Rover or just want to connect with other Landy owners, you're in the right place.

    Registering is free and easy just click here, we hope to see you on the forums soon!

1999 Freelander 2.0 Di power loss

Discussion in 'Land Rover Freelander' started by Mr BCG73, Sep 6, 2018.

< Previous Thread | Next Thread >
  1. Mr BCG73

    Mr BCG73 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2018
    Posts:
    6
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Portugal
    Hi,

    I have looked through a lot of the post and comments and they have helped me with a number of small issues I have had. I have not found on that covers my current one. I have a 1999 Freelander 2.0 Di and I recently started losing power on hills and acceleration on the motorway; In 1st and 2nd she will still climb a dirt hill as always. It happened all of a sudden and I did not have issues starting or a rough idle suggestive of a fuel pump issue. I got a diagnostic done and they said it showed a fault in the MAF sensor. I replaced it with an OEM part and started getting slight surges when driving but still have the same overall issue. Sound like the low-pressure fuel pump? Injectors? I didn’t feel the little surges till after I changed the MAF.
     
  2. GrumpyGel

    GrumpyGel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Posts:
    10,414
    Likes Received:
    5,314
    Location:
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    Hi, the L Series doesn't have a lift pump. Its primed with the hand pump bulb at the back of the engine bay and the injector pump does the job of lifting fuel once primed. It may be the fuel filter next to the bulb needs replacing. Could be the EGR not closing? I don't know much about how the Turbo works, but I'm wondering if its not giving enough pressure - someone with a knowledge of diagnostics would probably be able to test that - ie check the MAF readings.

    Are you getting excessive smoking or any other symptoms?
     
  3. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Posts:
    16,401
    Likes Received:
    3,079
    Location:
    Near Newquay
    The cat can clog up which really affects the power.
     
  4. Mr BCG73

    Mr BCG73 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2018
    Posts:
    6
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Portugal
    It got a lot worse quickly. Pretty sure it is the fuel pump, part # WFX100980. It surges and sometimes idles rough. It only smokes (black) when it struggles. No smoke when it surges. I flipped up the rear seat and accessed the low pressure fuel pump and it is the original 1999 one so 19 years is a good run I guess. MAF is a new BOSH so that isn't it.
     
  5. GrumpyGel

    GrumpyGel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Posts:
    10,414
    Likes Received:
    5,314
    Location:
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    That's not the fuel pump for your car - that's for the later TD4 engined cars.

    Yours does not have a lift pump - there is no pump in the fuel tank. The only pump on the car is the injection pump driven by a belt off the back of the cam shaft.
     
  6. Mr BCG73

    Mr BCG73 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2018
    Posts:
    6
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Portugal
    This is what I took out today. The difference between this and the TD4 pump as I can see is the shape of the connector, two pins instead of four, and the TD4 part number is WFX500070. I may be calling the engine by the wrong name, but this is the service K/L series manual I have been referring to http://www.club4x4.ro/service/ManualeService/Freelander/Freelander 1 MY99 - Workshop Manual.pdf
    Page 356 shows the low pressure pump for the L series. It also has a high pressure pump unlike the K series. 20180907_161845.jpg
     
  7. GrumpyGel

    GrumpyGel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Posts:
    10,414
    Likes Received:
    5,314
    Location:
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    The MAF only controls the EGR on your Rover L Series diesel engine. The MAP sensor is used by the ECU for fuelling (actually fuel governing).

    As its consistent I don't think its a wiring issue to the injection pump. It could be an issue with the gubbins inside the injection pump, but I think not.

    I would be removing the plenum and EGR and giving them a good clean and checking the actuation to the EGR - I'm not absolutely sure how it works but there is a valve or something on the bulkhead that actuates it I believe by applying a vacuum. That being the case, if the actuation failed, it would fail closed and not be a problem, but I may have that wrong - of the actuator could have failed open - you could try removing the actuator pipe from the EGR - I'm not sure on the repurcussions of that - you may lose all vacuum (eg brakes) - so proceed on that one with extreme caution! I've also never had the EGR apart on mine, so not sure if it can be cleaned out - but you would think it can. If you're brave, you could try removing the inlet manifold and giving that a clean. I say brave because, once again, I've not had that off on mine and I'm not sure if its complicated by the exhaust manifold/turbo and probably well rusted nuts/bolts. If you do not have it, I recommend downloading the Rave workshop manual. It will have detailed instructions on how to remove these bits and how they work. Info on downloading it here...

    https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/rave-disk-maintenance-manual.260227/

    If cleaning those bits out does not resolve the issue, then I would have thought the most likely causes would be the turbo or (as Nodge says) the cat blocked.
     
  8. GrumpyGel

    GrumpyGel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Posts:
    10,414
    Likes Received:
    5,314
    Location:
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    Either I'm going bonkers or maybe a lift pump was used on some L Series installations - just not on the Freelander installation. I'm very confident there is no lift pump on Freelander L Series cars.

    The electrical connector will be for the fuel gauge - hence only 2 wires.
     
  9. GrumpyGel

    GrumpyGel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Posts:
    10,414
    Likes Received:
    5,314
    Location:
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    From Rave....

    An aperture in the top surface of the tank allows for the fitment of the fuel pick-up and potentiometer. A notched ring retains the fuel pick-up and potentiometer in the tank and requires a special tool for removal and installation. The fuel pick-up incorporates a swirl pot which maintains a constant fuel level around the pick-up. The swirl pot also mixes warm fuel returned from the injection pump with cool fuel in the tank. An access panel below the rear passenger seats provides access to the fuel tank for maintenance.

    The fuel injection pump is a vane type pump, which is located on the front of the engine and driven by a belt from a pulley on the camshaft. The fuel injection pump draws fuel from the tank through a rubber pipe and the fuel filter. From the fuel filter, the fuel is drawn through a fuel cooler, located behind the bonnet locking platform, to the pump.

    The feed hose from the filter incorporates a bulb type handpump. The handpump is used, in conjunction with a filter bleed screw on the top face of the filter, to prime the filter and the fuel line after servicing.


    Many listings for that part number describe it as a "Pump" but the more accurate ones describe it as a "Sender Unit".
     
  10. Mr BCG73

    Mr BCG73 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2018
    Posts:
    6
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Portugal
    So Am I looking at a rebuild of the fuel injection pump? The Sender unit cost as much as the pump for the TD4 and the FIP is 1K+ new. Love and hate LRs....
     
  11. GrumpyGel

    GrumpyGel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Posts:
    10,414
    Likes Received:
    5,314
    Location:
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    It may be the pump - but there's nothing to necessarily say it is that which is faulty.

    I would start with the "free" stuff - like cleaning out the bits that soot up with dirty exhaust gas - such as the EGR, plenum and possibly manifold. Checking the EGR activation.

    If you say it struggles under load and kicks out black smoke when it struggles, I'm no expert, but I'd say that means there's plenty of fuel getting in - but not enough air to burn it properly - so either not enough air is getting in (ie turbo or induction piping/intercooler issue) the air is mixed with to much burnt air (ie EGR is faulty) or the air can not get out easily enough to allow clean air in (ie cat is blocked).

    As I say, I'm no expert (just keep a keen eye out on L Series issues going through here).

    What I do know, is that with a diesel, the amount of fuel injected is directly related to the throttle position - eg with your foot to the floor the ECU will inject (say) 100mg of fuel per 'bang', but when its only 1/2 way there it will only inject 50mg of fuel. This is controlled by the ECU telling the pump how much to inject. The ECU also has other 'maps' though, 1 of which is the 'smoke map' which calculates how much fuel will actually burn in the cylinder given the amount of oxygen in it. The L Series is a 2L engine, so at atmospheric pressure this may only allow 65mg of fuel to burn and the ECU would reduce a foot down 100mg 'request' down to 65mg. However, when the turbo is pushing out max pressure, it in effect turns the 2L engine into a 3L engine, which will allow (say) the 100mg request - so a foot full down request of 100mg would be allowed and injected by the ECU pump.

    When cars are 'remapped/chipped', this may increase the maximum injected to (say) 120mg and remove the smoke map. When you watch videos of these cars accelerating they kick out plumes of black smoke because they are injecting more fuel than the engine can burn. I'm working on the basis that under load yours is injecting the proper amount of fuel, but there's not enough air to burn it.

    Just my thoughts.
     
  12. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Posts:
    16,401
    Likes Received:
    3,079
    Location:
    Near Newquay
    You don't need to buy the fuel sender unit, unless your gauge isn't showing fuel level. There's NO pump in the tank unit as stated in post 2, so don't waster your time or money messing with it. Do the basics first, as GG said.
     
  13. GrumpyGel

    GrumpyGel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Posts:
    10,414
    Likes Received:
    5,314
    Location:
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    Before a well known member jumps in and this thread goes ballistic - the "check the MAF readings" in post #2 should be "check the MAP readings" as corrected in post #7!
     
    Nodge68 likes this.
  14. Nodge68

    Nodge68 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Posts:
    16,401
    Likes Received:
    3,079
    Location:
    Near Newquay
    Check the basics. You're down on power and there's black smoke. So this means there's fuel getting to the cylinders. It might not be timed correctly, but that's a different story.

    So if you're getting fuel, you need to look at the air supply being compromised in some way. This means checking the turbo, the EGR valve for sticking and intake pipes to the cylinder head.

    The exhaust also needs checking, as CAT blocking can occur sometimes. However a blocked CAT doesn't come and go, when it's blocled, it's blocked.

    There's no point in making random and pointless assumptions on which component has failed, unless thorough testing is done on all parts of the system which are potentially causing the issue.
     
  15. Mr BCG73

    Mr BCG73 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2018
    Posts:
    6
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Portugal
    Thanks for all of the advice and the link to the maintenance manual. I got back from travel this weekend and went through the air intake, turbo and exhaust systems. Turns out I didn't inspect the intercooler hoses well enough the first time. There was a split in the return hose at the edge of the band clamp. So, under normal load the pressure was not enough to let enough air escape to notice, but when accelerating or going up hills in higher gears enough escaped to interrupt combustion. Good as new and, thanks to your help, only 21 euros poorer.
     
    Nodge68 and GrumpyGel like this.
  16. GrumpyGel

    GrumpyGel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Posts:
    10,414
    Likes Received:
    5,314
    Location:
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    Result :)
     
    Oldyam likes this.
< Previous Thread | Next Thread >