110 Td5 sudden loss of drive

Hi all.. not been on in a while, and unfortunately my return does not bring good news...

My Td5 110 which I've had for 6 months now has covered nearly 130k and has been relatively trouble free until now...

On the way back from the gym tonight, just as I was pulling into my street, I was accelerating slowly in 3rd gear when all of a sudden there was a dull 'thud', and a complete loss of drive with no warning.

It won't move, no matter if you're in diff lock or not, high or low range. Just nothing! No grinding, crunching or anything.

I am suspecting that something has gone horribly wrong with the clutch or gearbox input shaft, as it is now possible to select gears perfectly without touching the clutch pedal!

Any help or advice muchly appreciated

gear linkage snapped?

Langers said:

Hi all.. not been on in a while, and unfortunately my return does not bring good news...

My Td5 110 which I've had for 6 months now has covered nearly 130k and has been relatively trouble free until now...

On the way back from the gym tonight, just as I was pulling into my street, I was accelerating slowly in 3rd gear when all of a sudden there was a dull 'thud', and a complete loss of drive with no warning.

It won't move, no matter if you're in diff lock or not, high or low range. Just nothing! No grinding, crunching or anything.

I am suspecting that something has gone horribly wrong with the clutch or gearbox input shaft, as it is now possible to select gears perfectly without touching the clutch pedal!

Any help or advice muchly appreciated

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its quite possible clutch plate is broken either center or rivets, after youve ascertained its actually going in difflock and hi/lo

Does it move in 4th gear?

johnlad said:

gear linkage snapped?

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I wasn't changing gear when it happened, and the gears still feel fine like they're engaging as usual, so I'd be surprised if it was that.

DaveM-sport said:

Does it move in 4th gear?

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Nope

jamesmartin said:

its quite possible clutch plate is broken either center or rivets, after youve ascertained its actually going in difflock and hi/lo

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It's definitely going into hi/low. Not sure if diff lock works or not but neither front or rear propshaft are turning.

Think it's something in the bellhousing, as I wouldn't be able to slip it into gear so easily with the clutch pedal up otherwise.

Is it possible that the dual mass flywheel has failed completely? It's been going for a while (bit juddery taking up drive, and used to groan first thing in the morning when you engaged the clutch).

Langers said:

I wasn't changing gear when it happened, and the gears still feel fine like they're engaging as usual, so I'd be surprised if it was that.



Nope



It's definitely going into hi/low. Not sure if diff lock works or not but neither front or rear propshaft are turning.

Think it's something in the bellhousing, as I wouldn't be able to slip it into gear so easily with the clutch pedal up otherwise.

Is it possible that the dual mass flywheel has failed completely? It's been going for a while (bit juddery taking up drive, and used to groan first thing in the morning when you engaged the clutch).

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usualy bangs up against its stops clutch plate most likely ,ive had a few shear the rivets

I had the same issue a few weeks ago driving done the road then a clunk followed by loss of drive! this was on a LT77 gearbox.

when the gearbox was removed they found this,



I'd already bought a gearbox off 200tdi ayre from the forum so i had that fitted as well as a new clutch assembly because there was a lot of back lash in my original gearbox, now it all back together it far better.

I've not had time to take my old gearbox apart to see if it was that which caused the issue to the friction plate or that it decided brake by itself.

Rawly86 said:

I had the same issue a few weeks ago driving done the road then a clunk followed by loss of drive! this was on a LT77 gearbox.

when the gearbox was removed they found this,



I'd already bought a gearbox off 200tdi ayre from the forum so i had that fitted as well as a new clutch assembly because there was a lot of back lash in my original gearbox, now it all back together it far better.

I've not had time to take my old gearbox apart to see if it was that which caused the issue to the friction plate or that it decided brake by itself.

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Very interesting, was the clutch slipping at all before this happened?
That's what surprised me about mine, there weren't any real warning signs!

Should probably have mentioned that I've had it remapped recently to stage 1 (nothing extreme) by JE Engineering, which probably won't have helped things... haha

Langers said:

was the clutch slipping at all before this happened?

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No, not that I'd noticed.

Probably your clutch rivets so then. Reason I asked was it moving in 4th was m gearbox **** itself recently by the layshaft bearings failing and I had nothing in all gears and could select them freely but 4th was the only one engaging due to it being direct drive.


The noise you hear in the mornings when engaging the clutch is probably your crank pilot bearing.

DaveM-sport said:

Probably your clutch rivets so then. Reason I asked was it moving in 4th was m gearbox **** itself recently by the layshaft bearings failing and I had nothing in all gears and could select them freely but 4th was the only one engaging due to it being direct drive.


The noise you hear in the mornings when engaging the clutch is probably your crank pilot bearing.

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Yeah I had the same thing with my old 110, layshaft **** itself and I managed to drive home using 4th low and 4th high

The Td5 is now in a local garage who have quoted me £600 for a new genuine clutch, release bearing and dual mass flywheel, fitted.

Can't complain at that, so I'll update and post what they find!

Langers said:

Yeah I had the same thing with my old 110, layshaft **** itself and I managed to drive home using 4th low and 4th high

The Td5 is now in a local garage who have quoted me £600 for a new genuine clutch, release bearing and dual mass flywheel, fitted.

Can't complain at that, so I'll update and post what they find!

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Haha, mine gave up on the motorway on the way to a trackday towing the M3 at half 6 in the morning! Kept going when I realised it was only the layshaft bearings and had 4th. 300 mile round trip in one gear with a trailer attached lol

Thank god for the Disco transfer box! Would have been torture otherwise.

Ironically... The clutch gave up on the car before the end of the day so had a driftcar needing a clutch and a Landrover needing a gearbox after the trip!



That seems very reasonable to fix it! The clutch and flywheel set alone costs nearly as much as that and its a right ignorant job to do really with the weight of the transfer box and gearbox.

Ask them to fit new gearbox and transfer box shaft seals too while there. Especially the one between the two gearboxes.

And get a new pilot bearing fitted so it won't be noisey in the mornings.

DaveM-sport said:

Haha, mine gave up on the motorway on the way to a trackday towing the M3 at half 6 in the morning! Kept going when I realised it was only the layshaft bearings and had 4th. 300 mile round trip in one gear with a trailer attached lol

Thank god for the Disco transfer box! Would have been torture otherwise.

Ironically... The clutch gave up on the car before the end of the day so had a driftcar needing a clutch and a Landrover needing a gearbox after the trip!



That seems very reasonable to fix it! The clutch and flywheel set alone costs nearly as much as that and its a right ignorant job to do really with the weight of the transfer box and gearbox.

Ask them to fit new gearbox and transfer box shaft seals too while there. Especially the one between the two gearboxes.

And get a new pilot bearing fitted so it won't be noisey in the mornings.

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That sounds like an expensive weekend.. it never rains but it pours eh?

I agree it's very reasonable! Seems like an excellent chap as well, he does mainly Landies and has his own monster Rangie classic on 38 inch tyres...

Will do... pilot bearing.. release bearing? Same thing?

Cheers

It wasn't too bad really as had planned on getting rid of the ****ty dual mass flywheel and clutch on the driftcar anyway.

I put off sorting the gearbox on the Defender for another three weeks so it softened the blow

Good fun though and can only laugh at the situation looking back

DaveM-sport said:

Haha, mine gave up on the motorway on the way to a trackday towing the M3 at half 6 in the morning! Kept going when I realised it was only the layshaft bearings and had 4th. 300 mile round trip in one gear with a trailer attached lol

Thank god for the Disco transfer box! Would have been torture otherwise.

Ironically... The clutch gave up on the car before the end of the day so had a driftcar needing a clutch and a Landrover needing a gearbox after the trip!



That seems very reasonable to fix it! The clutch and flywheel set alone costs nearly as much as that and its a right ignorant job to do really with the weight of the transfer box and gearbox.

Ask them to fit new gearbox and transfer box shaft seals too while there. Especially the one between the two gearboxes.

And get a new pilot bearing fitted so it won't be noisey in the mornings.

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i wouldnt touch those seals unless they are leaking , ive seen more leak after as people often damage seal collar

Langers said:

That sounds like an expensive weekend.. it never rains but it pours eh?

I agree it's very reasonable! Seems like an excellent chap as well, he does mainly Landies and has his own monster Rangie classic on 38 inch tyres...

Will do... pilot bearing.. release bearing? Same thing?

Cheers

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pilot bearing is spigot bush ,noisy bush can be deduced by squeal when pedal half depressed going quiet when fully

As jim says it's called the spigot bush and it's a bronze bush that is in the flywheel that the end of the main gearbox shaft sit's in.

Jason2 said:

As jim says it's called the spigot bush and it's a bronze bush that is in the flywheel that the end of the main gearbox shaft sit's in.

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Ah right I know what you mean now.

I'm having a new DMF fitted, hopefully that will come with a new bush.. if not I'm sure the mechanic will fit one.

Little update,

Had a call from the garage today, they've got the box out and said that all of the rivets in the clutch friction disc have either sheared or torn out of the liner - so well predicted James!

New LUK DMF and clutch kit was fitted this afternoon so I should be able to collect tomorrow.