Lost all drive (and my own drive)

Be warned this is going to turn into a bit of a rant!

So having a nice weekend out green laning yesterday, driving along in 3rd low up a steep'ish but flat gravel track. Catching up with the car in front I put my foot on the clutch and put it into 2nd low. Release the clutch and next thing we are going backwards down the hill. No bang, no weird noises, no smells or any indication at all that anything was wrong.

I stopped and tried the obvious has it dropped into neutral on the T-Box and trying diff lock to no avail. We then had a look underneath to check if the leavers were engaging and they appeared to be (felt like they were as well). Once off the green lane and in a layby we tried all sorts - the give away is with the engine running you can put it into gear with no drive and no resistance.

So were probably talking clutch issue. Prior to this there was no loss of power, no evidence of the clutch slipping and no smell or anything. The clutch (LOF) is also less than 18 months old (slave and master changed at the same time). So I am thinking its something to do with the release mechanism - something stopping the clutch engaging.... Slave maybe? Its not loosing any clutch fluid but it does look like pond water.

Now for the ranty bit.... at which point do you just give up. This thing just keeps hemorrhaging money (and my time), it started off at this vehicle which would be able to take us out in winter to climbing spots out on adventures and get us home in the worst of weather. Its slowly got out of hand and now rather than a tool to allow us to do our hobby, it is the hobby... and I am not sure I enjoy it.

Its got this stupid hold on me. Like an abusive relationship The sensible thing to do is sell it right now and buy a camper van or something along those lines... but as much as I really want to do that I somehow cant at the same time.

If your gearbox is an R380 it’s possible the main shaft in the gearbox has stripped

I, like a feeble American Sisyphus, kept endeavoring to get that behemoth boulder that is Land Rover up the hill for far too long.

At a certain point the problem is not the damn crap car, but the damn fool who keeps it.

I drive a Chevy Tahoe now.

The '95 RRC is now basically a storage shed.

I feel your pain with the constant issues. In the last year, mine has had a new front quarter chassis, exhaust, steering box, oil cooler hose and a few other niggles. But I still keep it and live with these things. But I will admit my resolve with it has been sorely tested at times… particularly when my wife says I should get a reliable car.

Western Slope Rover said:

I, like a feeble American Sisyphus, kept endeavoring to get that behemoth boulder that is Land Rover up the hill for far too long.

At a certain point the problem is not the damn crap car, but the damn fool who keeps it.

I drive a Chevy Tahoe now.

The '95 RRC is now basically a storage shed.

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Believe they can make a useful poultry house as well.

Don't forget that not only are you driving a vehicle that is over twenty years old (long after many cars have gone to the crusher) but you are also driving it off road and giving it some abuse.

You'll regret it if you sell her. I sold mine for similar reasons (fed up with the constant maintenance) and bought a new one. After 12 months l still have times when l wish l had never swapped.

If you're REALLY fed up then sell the old girl and buy a better one. Prices seem to have come down this year and you can get lovely TD5's for reasonable money, particularly if you are happy with a HT.

The 300tdi is still at a premium most likely because they can be exported to the USA.

lightning said:

<snip>
The 300tdi is still at a premium most likely because they can be exported to the USA.

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Or because they are better ? (i'm biased)

19_Hue_95 said:

it is the hobby... and I am not sure I enjoy it.

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This is the key part. I have had mine for years, and have rebuilt it several times so it is "reliable" but is still prone to failure as it is older than I am, and the design is even older still! To run an old defender you have to enjoy it, and that includes both the driving and the constant maintaining. If you are not happy with it becoming the hobby and want to go back to it enabling the hobby get a modern double cab pickup (but you will regret it). If you are happy and just ranting/blowing off steam then welcome to owning a land rover. I would second the above advice that is is is likely stripped the main shaft, and if it didn't have a new LOF clutch I would also throw out the possibility of having stripped the central clutch boss off the friction material.

Pond Water! As a check open the bleed nipple on the slave. I have known debris in the fluid block the return passage to the master so clutch will not release. If this is the case be careful as fluid will squirt out.

I thought I would give you all a small update. Having had it inspected by the mechanic & friend it appears that the transfer box is toast. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the intermediate (?) shaft has sheared. So there is power / drive through the gearbox and through the transfer box but no output / drive to the propshafts. Apparently this is something he has seen about 5 times now.

Having debated it for days with my partner, Lee the Mechanic and friends we came down to the following options:

N.B - For reference our defender is a fully converted camper with an Alucab style pop top roof. And in the last 5 years of ownership, although costing a fortune in spare parts and preventative maintenance, has never actually let us down until this episode.

1) Sack it all off, chuck the cheapest T-Box we can find in the truck and get it sold. Then with the money buy something sensible and more suited to what we need. There comes the tricky bit - what do we need, on paper a small transporter sized camper van is the ideal camper / climbing basecamp, but getting stuck in a snowy, icey and frozen carpark at 7pm in January after a days winter climbing doesn't rest easy with me, especially given how much the Defender has helped out in these situations before. So then its 4x4s - the older / Japanese station wagon are all rusted or no more reliable than the Defender, 4x4 vans are both hard to find and very expensive for what they are, and that leaves pickups which although I really do fancy one are no good for vehicle camping.

2) Stick the cheapest T-Box we can find in the truck and carry on with business as normal. There seems to be a lot of people on FB marketplace selling 'rebuilt' transfer boxes for not much money. My anxiety couldn't handle this option, we are planning some big abroad trips for next year and the only thing worse than this happening again is this happening again 1,000 miles from home. This option was ruled out pretty fast.

3) Get a Winchester / Ashcroft box - its a lot of money, but we know its done right and we can improve on some of the known problems with the T-Box.

In the end we went for option 3, but it was honestly 50:50 between keeping it and getting rid. The main reason for keeping it is that we could not create something that is capable of doing the same as what the Defender does for the money we would get if we sold the Defender. But also as my friend Lee said, its done over 240k miles, the last 50k in our ownership, its been driven hard and done some serious off roading.

So I have just bought an Ashcroft box with a ATB diff, which when we spoke to Winchester is a brilliant piece of kit both on and off road and should take some of the slop out of the drivetrain and make it better mannered on the road. The only reason we went with Ashcroft over Winchester is the delivery / turn around.

At 240k miles then I guess you can expect things to wear out.
Hopefully it will give you another 240k miles.

I put an Ashcroft limited slip centre diff in mine a few years ago and I've been pleasantly surprised at how it just sails up slopes in the snow, without me having to do any technically difficult driving techniques at all. It's very satisfying to go past all the wheel marks where people with more aggressive tyres than me have spun their wheels and slid all over the road, and on to the sunlit uplands in virgin snow.