P38 Diesel Injector Pump & Cam Top Dead Centre?

[UnitLandy]

Apologies if this is well discussed. I looked but couldn't find a thread. I've got the front cam lobe pointing to the injector side with the edge parallel to the guide visible in the oil filler hole & the locating flywheelpin is in & located (well the crank pulley wouldn't move after so im assuming its in properly). However, the woodruff key on the injector pump doesn't appear to be TDC. Is it supposed to be?

 

[Datatek]

Apologies if this is well discussed. I looked but couldn't find a thread. I've got the front cam lobe pointing to the injector side with the edge parallel to the guide visible in the oil filler hole & the locating flywheelpin is in & located (well the crank pulley wouldn't move after so im assuming its in properly). However, the woodruff key on the injector pump doesn't appear to be TDC. Is it supposed to be?
View attachment 343417View attachment 343419

There are 2 holes in the flywheel. Check RAVE for the full info on fitting the FIP.

 

[UnitLandy]

Cheers. Had a look but it doesn't say.

 

[Grrrrrr]

Wammers did some detailed responses on this. I can't remember who he was helping. There is indeed another hole just before the TDC one. You don't want to be 180° out either.

 

[UnitLandy]

Do you know if the woodruff key should be TDC on the pump?

 

[RangeRoller dt]

Suppose it depends on what you are doing / been done and how far stripped down it is.
Is it just the pump removal ; chains haven’t been off, or head or anything? Can be easy to get 15 or 180 degrees out

 

[UnitLandy]

The pumps leaking so it's a removal for new seals. As long as its locked off and I don't turn the pump shaft/woodruff key, does it matter what position it's in? As long as nothings changed while it's out it shouldn't affect the timing when I put it back in. Don't worry, I know to mark the pump bottom & middle section plus keep the removal tool in place to keep the sprocket falling into the timing case.

 

[UnitLandy]

Incidentally, that was wierd. Just as I though has someone replied my phone notified me of your response.

 

[Mark Piercy]

Are you doing the top cap seals, upper and lower caps?
They can be done with the pump on the engine if you haven't gone to far dismantling the pump.
The injector head can also be done in situ.
These three are the most popular seal fail issues but the other seals can fail.

 

[Grrrrrr]

The pumps leaking so it's a removal for new seals. As long as its locked off and I don't turn the pump shaft/woodruff key, does it matter what position it's in? As long as nothings changed while it's out it shouldn't affect the timing when I put it back in. Don't worry, I know to mark the pump bottom & middle section plus keep the removal tool in place to keep the sprocket falling into the timing case.

As long as the tool stays in place you can take the pump in and out with no issues. You'll have to time it up afterwards anyway.

 

[UnitLandy]

I was going to do them all and just get it over with. I guarantee If I did the quick job it would come back to bit my backside anyway.

As long as the tool stays in place you can take the pump in and out with no issues. You'll have to time it up afterwards anyway.

Oh, right. If you Mark everything off and nothing moves why do they need to be re-timed?

 

[Mark Piercy]

I was going to do them all and just get it over with. I guarantee If I did the quick job it would come back to bit my backside anyway.


Oh, right. If you Mark everything off and nothing moves why do they need to be re-timed?

The only reference you really need is the fip body relationship to the casing it's bolts too.
Logic says as you have noted it should all be in place on the engine side.
The only thing that can move is the fip drive shaft.
Don't forget as the chain stretches all the references go out the window, hence the shim under the camshaft tool and moving the fip clockwise towards the engine if needed. (looking from drivers seat forward).

 

[Mark Piercy]

Just to note, any difference in the position of the upper caps on the fip when replaced.
If not exactly where you found it, it'll either not run and or idle very low or idle very fast, like very fast!!

 

[UnitLandy]

Thank you, Mark. That's reassuring advice. Does the fip removal tool fit the tensioner pivot sleeve exactly or will the sprocket be loose after fip removal?
I was going to make grooves between the fip caps to align them exactly. Hopefully this will help with the overall timing. I've read 750rpm Is where I want to be.

 

[Datatek]

Thank you, Mark. That's reassuring advice. Does the fip removal tool fit the tensioner pivot sleeve exactly or will the sprocket be loose after fip removal?
I was going to make grooves between the fip caps to align them exactly. Hopefully this will help with the overall timing. I've read 750rpm Is where I want to be.

Are you sure it's not just the top cover leaking as was the case on both mine? Easy job in situe if that is the case. The fuel runs down making it appear that there are other joints leaking. No timing problems removing the top cover.

 

[UnitLandy]

Yeah, I replaced the top one and it didn't do anything so it's probably the lower ring. It's leaking very badly now to the point it's leaving very large puddles where I regularly park it.

 

[RangeRoller dt]

If you haven’t had the chains off or changed anything should be okay if it was good before. I’m fairly sure the woodruff key should be roughly vertical when locked at cyl1 tdc but not 110%, others memories may be fresher, but as you say it’s all locked in and sprocket wont drop