Bleeding 2011 defender clutch

[guineafowl21]

My mate's puma-type, bulgy bonnet Def 90 had it's clutch master changed this week but he couldn't get the system bled properly. I had a go and got a pedal for him, but I'm not sure about the bleed nipple - it doesn't seem to tighten (and is in a f£$%ing awkward place.)

Am I right in thinking the bleed nipple is like a 1/4 turn tap, rather than a conventional taper-lock type?

 

[guineafowl21]

Come on, you lot! Hasn't anyone bled a TDCi clutch? If this keeps up I'm going back to the Freelander section...

 

[Al2O3]

No idea, but what difference will it make? Get a good fit pipe on the nipple and open it right up. Just bled my 300Tdi and got nowhere just cracking it open. You need a decent flow. Check reservoir every couple of pedal pumps. Won't take many if done properly.

 

[guineafowl21]

No idea, but what difference will it make? Get a good fit pipe on the nipple and open it right up. Just bled my 300Tdi and got nowhere just cracking it open. You need a decent flow. Check reservoir every couple of pedal pumps. Won't take many if done properly.

Problem is, the slave is concentric therefore hidden inside gearbox, and the bleed nipple is a plastic affair tucked away so you can barely get a spanner on it. Also, it's not a proper nut and has only two flats, so your spanner is limited to two positions 180deg apart. Carpal tunnel syndrome here we come.

I just wasn't sure if it's meant to go tight or whether it's like a 1/4 turn tap. You can't really tell what's happening in the tight space with all sorts in the way. The fluid seems to stop coming in a certain position so I've left it at that - I've not heard from my mate so he's either happy or stranded somewhere...

 

[zeaphod]

I have googled and found the ford TCDi concentric slave cylinder valve described as a "flip" valve, which suggests a short turn. Also that the recommended torque for the plastic housing is 3-5NM. Not much out there, considering these things are fitted to every modern Ford. Maybe a call to a local indie?

 

[Al2O3]

How hard did they want to make it

 

[zeaphod]

Anyone got a Haynes manual for a Mondeo?

 

[zeaphod]

There are free Ford manuals on line. Better off with a Land Rover Specific workshop manual though.

 

[Wimblowdriver]

The factory manual (07 on 2.4 Puma) says loosen the bleed nipple by 2 turns. Hope that helps.

 

[guineafowl21]

The factory manual (07 on 2.4 Puma) says loosen the bleed nipple by 2 turns. Hope that helps.

Sort of(!) - the nipple didn't seems to loosen or tighten, just turn (and fumble, drop the spanner, curse, get squirted in the eye with brake fluid, curse again, kick the nearest tyre etc).

His clutch pedal is back on the floor again, so neither the garage (who have seen it twice) nor I could sort the problem. The master was replaced, but I can't see why a 2011 vehicle with 40,000 on the clock should have a sudden master cylinder failure - don't they go gradually anyway?

 

[Wimblowdriver]

don't they go gradually anyway?

Don't know what is normal for failure, but my usual experience of car hydraulics is the seals fail and leak fluid in a relatively short time. While I was reading the manual earlier I made a mental note that the clutch master has a low pressure connection from the brake master (which seems odd to me so will go back and re-read it). However, if it is, its worth checking the fluid level in the brake master if the clutch has been bled.Will now go and re-read (its on my other laptop) and report back (will also check under my bonnet tomorrow as I'm now curious).

 

[guineafowl21]

Don't know what is normal for failure, but my usual experience of car hydraulics is the seals fail and leak fluid in a relatively short time. While I was reading the manual earlier I made a mental note that the clutch master has a low pressure connection from the brake master (which seems odd to me so will go back and re-read it). However, if it is, its worth checking the fluid level in the brake master if the clutch has been bled.Will now go and re-read (its on my other laptop) and report back (will also check under my bonnet tomorrow as I'm now curious).

Interesting - I'll see him tomorrow and have a look. They seem to have made these damn Pumas into crystal maze puzzles. I'll stick with my Td5.

 

[zeaphod]

There is a shared brake/clutch reservoir, but it's split. Another Mondeo part.

 

[Wimblowdriver]

From the 2.4 manual, general description of the clutch;
The cylinder has 2 hydraulic connections;

• A Low Pressure feed pipe (providing fluid supply from the brake fluid reservoir)
• A high pressure pipe.

Curiosity got the better of me so I looked under the bonnet of my 2.2 puma. It has separate fluid reservoirs for the brakes and clutch, with no connection between them. I assume the 2.4 is the same. And I assume the description reference is poor technical writing, and the first bullet point should read "providing fluid supply from the clutch fluid reservoir". This would make sense to me, as further reading of the manual reveals that the clutch master cylinder has a pressure sensor which sends a signal to the engine management system to reduce torque when the pedal is pushed. And the brake master cylinder has a pressure sensor which, through the engine management system reduces fuel delivery to the engine during braking. If the brakes and clutch had the same pressure system, signals would get confused?

 

[guineafowl21]

What low pressure feed pipe? As far as I could see the clutch fluid reservoir is integral with the cylinder.

 

[Wimblowdriver]

What low pressure feed pipe? As far as I could see the clutch fluid reservoir is integral with the cylinder.

Don't know. Mine hasn't got "the pipe" either. The technical author of the manual should be sacked.

 

[guineafowl21]

From my experiences, the technical author of the clutch hydraulics should be sacked.