VCU Torque test results

[Alibro]

In my experience (albeit limited but real, not theory) the 'Reversing in a circle' test is total sh1te. When I test drove my Freelander I tried reversing in on full lock and although it felt a little tight I didn't think it was too bad. Got it home and tried the one wheel up test and the bar wouldn't move (105,000 miles). I followed the advice given here that the VCU was goosed and took the prop off. After cutting the VCU open I discovered the fluid had turned to glue so the VCU was more like a solid connector than a VCU. Now I ain't the smartest guy in the room but even I understand that if a drive train is designed to have a VCU acting as a diff between front and rear, and if the VCU doesn't give then something else has to, hence the number of Freelanders with busted IRD's and Diffs.

BTW jjtech56 is now officially my choice of AOTW.
Well earned due to all the effort put in to this thread.

 

[jjtech56]

The reason I entered this thread was that you agreed to "If the viscose coupling has failed just replace because it will not drive the back wheels if it locks in place addmittedly it will be permanent four wheel drive but this should not break the transfer box". If future visitors to LZ see you agreeing with that statement - they run a huge risk of transmission failure.

You then go on to say (in effect) that this thread is "a load of crap" and that's because a "specialist" told you so. Many many times people come to LZ to fix problems caused by "specialists". When ever a post in the Freelander section references a "specialist" - it usually means someone who doesn't know what they are doing has caused a problem. I don't think this is any different. If anyone is saying 1 VCU test is better or worse than any other - but the OWUT is no good - then they are wrong. By definition they are saying that the VCU can be tested - and in that respect the OWUT is a quick & easy test (with no commercial outside influence) that this thread has lots of data on from which to compare results. So to enter it and call it crap is once again providing people with misinformation. As I say - I do agree with your commercially generated comment that VCUs can fail before their service interval - intervals you are telling people to rely upon - more misinformation.

Your comment about putting new tyres on the front, is also misleading to anyone who stumbles on this thread. The rears you said were 'new' - but without your later qualification that may have just been newer. New on the front with part worn on the back is a no-no.

So presumably we both know (roughly) how the Freelander's transmission works.

Have you been on the beer or do you suffer a mental deficiency..your the one who said driving in perm 4 wd shouldnt be a prob and im the one who had to post bell engineering stating it will cause massive damage...its called ..back peedling now you relaise what a dick youve made of ya self with that statement.
regards tyre we in uk..understand ..new to mean...new...not newer..or newish..lol...
Your the one who then got personel with ar...ole of the week..a true sign of a lost argument and low mental ability, turn to insults.
in fact ive had several messagessaying ..ignore hes a known knob, very arrogant...seems ya well known then..then again any one who calls them self grumpy must have a few cells missing ..rename....knob...then it will be very accurate..bye mr knob ..no point in wasting any more time on a knob..bet your drunk or brain damaged
meant for grumpy no one else

e

 

[jjtech56]

In my experience (albeit limited but real, not theory) the 'Reversing in a circle' test is total sh1te. When I test drove my Freelander I tried reversing in on full lock and although it felt a little tight I didn't think it was too bad. Got it home and tried the one wheel up test and the bar wouldn't move (105,000 miles). I followed the advice given here that the VCU was goosed and took the prop off. After cutting the VCU open I discovered the fluid had turned to glue so the VCU was more like a solid connector than a VCU. Now I ain't the smartest guy in the room but even I understand that if a drive train is designed to have a VCU acting as a diff between front and rear, and if the VCU doesn't give then something else has to, hence the number of Freelanders with busted IRD's and Diffs.

BTW jjtech56 is now officially my choice of AOTW.
Well earned due to all the effort put in to this thread.

spot on..in normal use ie on the road in dry condition..its a front wheel drive only...only front half of prop rotates leaving rear wheels as a rolling shell, if the front wheels were to meet mud or snow..the front wheels spin due to no traction this causes the vcu to get hot that causes the gel to stiffen and lock the vcu into one unit , this drives the rear part of prop via the diff and back wheels now turn , the secret in the design is that in 4wd its only meant to travel at very low speed so when the front wheels get traction the vcu cools releases the rear prop drive ..back to 2wd...if its perm locked due to vcu failure you end up with the whole drive train ..inc rear diff travelling at whatever speed you driving at which may be 70 on motorway..which it aint meant todo..andthe lot blows up..as in disintigrates..simples eh

 

[jamesmartin]

spot on..in normal use ie on the road in dry condition..its a front wheel drive only...only front half of prop rotates leaving rear wheels as a rolling shell, if the front wheels were to meet mud or snow..the front wheels spin due to no traction this causes the vcu to get hot that causes the gel to stiffen and lock the vcu into one unit , this drives the rear part of prop via the diff and back wheels now turn , the secret in the design is that in 4wd its only meant to travel at very low speed so when the front wheels get traction the vcu cools releases the rear prop drive ..back to 2wd...if its perm locked due to vcu failure you end up with the whole drive train ..inc rear diff travelling at whatever speed you driving at which may be 70 on motorway..which it aint meant todo..andthe lot blows up..as in disintigrates..simples eh

except your wrong ,a standard vcu transmits some torque if only a part of whats possible add in difference of ratio you get a little more ,

 

[jjtech56]

except your wrong ,a standard vcu transmits some torque if only a part of whats possible add in difference of ratio you get a little more ,

the amount of torgue is negligable with regards to turning or powering the rear wheels

 

[jamesmartin]

the amount of torgue is negligable with regards to turning or powering the rear wheels

it isnt ,its enough to make it 4wd but with fwd feel on tarmac

 

[jjtech56]

it isnt ,its enough to make it 4wd but with fwd feel on tarmac

is it not the job of the ird to reduce any any such torque to the rear dif to minimise power to dif..bit out of my depth with ird gear reduction but commonsense would say thats its job ...your view ...

 

[blue beasty]

The argument is spurious.

There is no absolute definition of 4WD or AWD other than a system where it is possible for any of the wheels to be driven.

If, as you claim only the front half of the prop rotates in normal road conditions at speed then the VCU is going to heat up very quickly.

The VCU is a variable limited slip diff and the IRD creates front wheel bias.

Neither of which exclude it from being 4wd it's just an unusual system to create it

 

[GrumpyGel]

You call it potata.

You only need to pick up a VCU and try turning the 2 ends to realise the back prop will always turn - or indeed put a 32mm nut on a jacked rear wheel hub nut with a 1.2M bar and a 5KG weight... nah that'd be a 'crap' idea, cos it might tell you you can't wait till a service interval

The latest observations within the buffoon Freelander forum is that at motorway speed (possibly quite a bit less as well), the VCU is in 'hump mode' - so is 'locked'.

 

[wammers]

For a guy that knows quite a bit, you sure do talk a lot of rubbish. Is this post going to get you all rattles and prams as well?

No, there is no point in trying to explain things to people who in no way understand what you are talking about. As i have said, in my view the four wheel drive system on the Freelander is an after thought engineering abortion. If people cannot absorb the reason why IRD units with different input ratios and output ratios have different gear sizes in them or why there has to be a speed differential front to back of the VCU, it is pointless talking to them. Designed as it is the VCU is a consumable unit simple as that. Thread after thread and post after post trying to find out why they wear out are totally pointless. Aside from owners playing with TPs and tyre sizes which may contribute to earlier fail, how the transmission is engineered and set up as standard makes them a consumable. They cannot really be regarded as anything else.

 

[wammers]

The argument is spurious.

There is no absolute definition of 4WD or AWD other than a system where it is possible for any of the wheels to be driven.

If, as you claim only the front half of the prop rotates in normal road conditions at speed then the VCU is going to heat up very quickly.

The VCU is a variable limited slip diff and the IRD creates front wheel bias.

Neither of which exclude it from being 4wd it's just an unusual system to create it

Who are you talking to?

 

[wammers]

Who are you talking to?

Ok forget it missed the previous post.

 

[wammers]

In my experience (albeit limited but real, not theory) the 'Reversing in a circle' test is total sh1te. When I test drove my Freelander I tried reversing in on full lock and although it felt a little tight I didn't think it was too bad. Got it home and tried the one wheel up test and the bar wouldn't move (105,000 miles). I followed the advice given here that the VCU was goosed and took the prop off. After cutting the VCU open I discovered the fluid had turned to glue so the VCU was more like a solid connector than a VCU. Now I ain't the smartest guy in the room but even I understand that if a drive train is designed to have a VCU acting as a diff between front and rear, and if the VCU doesn't give then something else has to, hence the number of Freelanders with busted IRD's and Diffs.

BTW jjtech56 is now officially my choice of AOTW.
Well earned due to all the effort put in to this thread.

That sort of proves the reverse on full lock concept. It was your judgement on what was a little tight that was the problem. Maybe someone who does it every day might have thought differently. The rest of your conceptualisation is reasonable.

 

[Alibro]

That sort of proves the reverse on full lock concept. It was your judgement on what was a little tight that was the problem. Maybe someone who does it every day might have thought differently. The rest of your conceptualisation is reasonable.

It proves that for any normal person either buying a car or trying to test their VCU the reversing test is at best unreliable. I bought a K series (No point in arguing the stupidity of that as already proven) and while test driving I tried reversing on full lock without touching the throttle pedal which it did no problem. The K series is not known for having lots of torque so at the time I thought this was a pass for the VCU. It may be because mine has the 15" wheels with AT tyres on a wet road so there was more give in the tyre than would be the case with 16" wheels and road tyres on a dry road but whatever the reason I found very little difference between a locked up VCU and my refurbed VCU which passes the one wheel up test no problem.

 

[jjtech56]

It proves that for any normal person either buying a car or trying to test their VCU the reversing test is at best unreliable. I bought a K series (No point in arguing the stupidity of that as already proven) and while test driving I tried reversing on full lock without touching the throttle pedal which it did no problem. The K series is not known for having lots of torque so at the time I thought this was a pass for the VCU. It may be because mine has the 15" wheels with AT tyres on a wet road so there was more give in the tyre than would be the case with 16" wheels and road tyres on a dry road but whatever the reason I find very little difference between a locked up VCU and my refurbed VCU which passes the one wheel up test no problem.

Then i think were back to the scenerio that if your just buying the car and its done over 70k or looks like its been a farm vehicle or maybe had a hard life and no service history is a good sign of neglect then,,if in doubt change vcu and bearing carriers, 300/400 quid now or upto 1800 quid latter on ..do you agree

 

[jjtech56]

No, there is no point in trying to explain things to people who in no way understand what you are talking about. As i have said, in my view the four wheel drive system on the Freelander is an after thought engineering abortion. If people cannot absorb the reason why IRD units with different input ratios and output ratios have different gear sizes in them or why there has to be a speed differential front to back of the VCU, it is pointless talking to them. Designed as it is the VCU is a consumable unit simple as that. Thread after thread and post after post trying to find out why they wear out are totally pointless. Aside from owners playing with TPs and tyre sizes which may contribute to earlier fail, how the transmission is engineered and set up as standard makes them a consumable. They cannot really be regarded as anything else.

You have hit the nail on the head...vcu is a consumable item ...no diff to your clutch..makes no diff whether its a bad idea ..its there and if your nor happy with the concept..buy sometning else...or pay out the pennies

 

[blue beasty]

Then i think were back to the scenerio that if your just buying the car and its done over 70k or looks like its been a farm vehicle or maybe had a hard life and no service history is a good sign of neglect then,,if in doubt change vcu and bearing carriers, 300/400 quid now or upto 1800 quid latter on ..do you agree

The last 3 words are unnecessary and make you look like an arrogant twunt only interested in point scoring instead of a community member interested in helping....

Just saying in case you'd like to stick around

 

[Alibro]

Then i think were back to the scenerio that if your just buying the car and its done over 70k or looks like its been a farm vehicle or maybe had a hard life and no service history is a good sign of neglect then,,if in doubt change vcu and bearing carriers, 300/400 quid now or upto 1800 quid latter on ..do you agree

I now work on the principle if the car has done over 70k miles the VCU is probably dodgy and the buyer should factor replacement in the price. Having said that the VCU may already have been replaced so it would be pretty silly to blindly replace it without testing first. I tested mine on the day I bought it, found it was faulty and removed the prop shaft straight away. Had it passed the OWUT I would have happily left it on.

 

[jjtech56]

The last 3 words are unnecessary and make you look like an arrogant twunt only interested in point scoring instead of a community member interested in helping....

Just saying in case you'd like to stick around

The ....do you agree...in hindsite was not needed as it was a common sense statement that any one with half a brain ..could not agree with.. was looking to create a bit of soladarity on the subject something that we all agreed on..

 

[jjtech56]

I now work on the principle if the car has done over 70k miles the VCU is probably dodgy and the buyer should factor replacement in the price. Having said that the VCU may already have been replaced so it would be pretty silly to blindly replace it without testing first. I tested mine on the day I bought it, found it was faulty and removed the prop shaft straight away. Had it passed the OWUT I would have happily left it on.

I would think had it been replaced and being an expensive part there would be a reciept even if only for the parts, it would be a big selling point to show a buyer.