P38A ECU 2.5 DSE from EGR engine on NON EGR replacement question

[Mukiwa]

Hi all,

Would fitting an EGR ecu (from plastic manifold engine) to a non EGR engine (ally manifold) give any strange side effects or would it need re-synching or similar? I have been told different things so I thought I'd ask the P38 guru team :-D
cheers,
Hoppy

 

[Grrrrrr]

The code in it would need writing into the BECM, that's for sure.

Some of the settings in the EGR are hard coded whereas the non-EGR takes sensor readings. How much this will affect the running I don't know. Wammers or someone will though.

Rare for an ECU to go. Sure it has?

 

[Grrrrrr]

Have you pulled a lump from an Omega?

 

[brianp38dse]

There are different sensors on the later engines so would have thought you need the same as original there are a few different ecu numbers.

 

[wammers]

Different ECU fit the proper one. You need MSB100870, Auto or Maybe ERR7302, Manual. Fit only the one that matches the part number on your present one.

 

[Mukiwa]

Thanks guys. So you don't think I'm a numpty it wasn't me. It was the lovely 4x4 garage in Congleton ( a father & son team ).... I got a replacement engine fitted by them that leaked oil continually from day one.

If anyone on here wants a recommendation of a garage NOT to use then read this.

The engine had a hot start problem. Now bear in mind the original hot start box was still in situ so either way this shouldn't have happened if the job had been done correctly. So I asked them to swap the FIP over from my old engine. They charged me for it and I still have the invoice..... But funnily enough I've just discovered that the old oil leak isn't an oil leak after all. It's the ORIGINAL FIP leaking and had been from day one. So if they had fitted my old one then it wouldn't be leaking would it? Exactly.
While I was there they couldn't get the engine to start, so I saw D*n put his hand somewhere under the manifold and pull something off. He then said that will trick the engine into thinking that it's cold all the time.So I now have a wandering temp gauge needle which it didn't do before, and no idea what he did - as he later denied he did anything - to fix the problem.

Firstly they dropped the original ECU over the +ve terminal of the battery doing a lovely impersonation of an arc weld, then D*n (can't tell you his full name) told me that it was already a dodgy ecu as they hadn't been able to *talk to it*. Now, I saw them hook up the diagnostic box and talk to it about 30 mins earlier. So I had a slight disagreement with them over this tale of the ECU not really working before they arced it over the battery. They then fetched an ecu from a P38 DSE that they had standing around and fitted it. I asked them did the ECU need remapping or synching in any way with the older engine. No they said, of course it didn't as it was still a diesel P38. They told me that it was originally a manual engine that they'd had a real night mare with as they had to change all the wiring looms over.

But you know garages, they have your car and your keys. So I paid up.

2 miles away I hit a dip in the road and as my foot did a bounce on and off the accelerator peddle the engine management light came on and I lost all power. F***!!!!!!!!! I managed to pull over and then revved the engine and it came back to life and the EM light went out. I drove home and then told them about this. I subsequently found quite a few jobs that I'd paid for that revealed themselves as not actually being done - so all faith in the team of 2 was now out of the window. Then the SRS fault suddenly came back. Oh and I discovered that after the wheel SRS sensor had been changed my key fob now is not recognised in the ignition. When I quizzed Stan & Olly they said.... wait for it......... "All P38's are like that mate" And a previously smooth gear change has now gone clunky and was nearly stalling the engine when going from P to D at the traffic lights. [I changed the filter and trans oil and that seems to have diminished quite a lot now] There was no way after the 2nd time some of these jobs had been revisited by them due to me discovering that the jobs they'd told me * never showed up on the road tests mate * came back to haunt me. When I pointed out that yet again some things were still not ok they refused to loan me a courtesy car stating that they were too busy and had none available. Hmmm more like they didn't want me to hold one of their cars to ransom until the work I paid for had been corrected more like.

I would really like to keep this car due to sheer bloody mindedness now so all help and advice is gratefully appreciated

 

[wammers]

Didn't have a bloody clue what they were doing by the sounds of it.

 

[Mukiwa]

Wammers - spot on. I told them the same thing, but apparently selling RR's means you know all about them.

 

[Grrrrrr]

I think a decent Landy dealership would see immediately how incompetent they are. I don't know where you stand legally but might be worth contacting the Citizens Advice Bureau before you go any further. Anyone else on here know more? Mad Hat Man, perhaps?

After that it should be fairly simple. Make sure the ECU matches your engine and gearbox and then program the BECM to the new ECU. Best make sure all correct sensors are attached as the non-EGR and EGR ones use different ones. So that might mean some loom changes if they've not done them all as they should. Probably easier just to find the correct replacement engine to be honest and probably cheaper too.

 

[Mukiwa]

Morning Grrrrrr,
I agree with your last sentiment.As always with vehicles, you live and learn and spend a lot of cash being fleeced. Garages should not be allowed to do certain work without minimum qualifications in my humble opinion. And those that are proven incompetent should be banned from being able to trade in that field of incompetence until skills deficits are corrected.
Anyway off to collect an ECU that matches the engine today. Anyone want a 2.5 DSE auto ecu? I will have one for sale

 

[wammers]

Morning Grrrrrr,
I agree with your last sentiment.As always with vehicles, you live and learn and spend a lot of cash being fleeced. Garages should not be allowed to do certain work without minimum qualifications in my humble opinion. And those that are proven incompetent should be banned from being able to trade in that field of incompetence until skills deficits are corrected.
Anyway off to collect an ECU that matches the engine today. Anyone want a 2.5 DSE auto ecu? I will have one for sale

Stick it on eBay they get good money. What year is the car?

 

[Mukiwa]

99 if I remember. Mine is 99 2.5 DSE tdi

So what is the best ( duck flying grenades now..... ) software ecu diagnosis box to use if I need to match the ECU to BECM?

PS. Did you splice the mainbrace yesterday Wammers? I did :-D

 

[wammers]

99 if I remember. Mine is 99 2.5 DSE tdi

So what is the best ( duck flying grenades now..... ) software ecu diagnosis box to use if I need to match the ECU to BECM?

PS. Did you splice the mainbrace yesterday Wammers? I did :-D

If it's a 99 it should be EGR so what is going on? You have me at odds a little. Have these dickheads fitted an older engine and changed the wiring to match it? Needs explaining more fully. A Syncmate will do it or a Nanocom. You need to read the security code in the ECU and copy it into the BECM. But before you do anything else tell me what has gone on in detail. Didn't imbibe yesterday went to lads for tea so was driving, but i suppose a day late won't matter. I am not good at birthdays anyway only one i can remember is mine. 351 and still going strong for the corps though.

 

[Mukiwa]

Here's what happened. My head gasket went. I was recovered to a local garage and told that it could be more than simple head gasket so we aren't touching it. No local garage would touch it and was advised to get a replacement engine. I did this then got told of a garage in Congleton that would swap out the engines. I did ask the salvage yard if there was any difference in engines he said no, so it seems I bought a non egr 2.5 tdi manual engine.
I wasn't told it was a manual gearbox engine until after the garage fitted the engine to the RR. I did say that mine was an auto 2.5 DSE P38 and does the engine make any difference. I was told no it didn't.

So that is where I am currently mate.

I'll keep my eye out for any answers as I'm off to do some work and will be passing by the salvage yard and picking up the non-egr ecu.

cheers for now,

Hoppy

 

[wammers]

Here's what happened. My head gasket went. I was recovered to a local garage and told that it could be more than simple head gasket so we aren't touching it. No local garage would touch it and was advised to get a replacement engine. I did this then got told of a garage in Congleton that would swap out the engines. I did ask the salvage yard if there was any difference in engines he said no, so it seems I bought a non egr 2.5 tdi manual engine.
I wasn't told it was a manual gearbox engine until after the garage fitted the engine to the RR. I did say that mine was an auto 2.5 DSE P38 and does the engine make any difference. I was told no it didn't.

So that is where I am currently mate.

I'll keep my eye out for any answers as I'm off to do some work and will be passing by the salvage yard and picking up the non-egr ecu.

cheers for now,

Hoppy

Right. If yours is a 99 DSE it should be EGR with a MAF sensor and a plastic manifold is that correct? The early non EGR heads cannot be fitted with the plastic manifold, they do not have stud positions to accept them and you will have no wiring for the inlet air temp sender fitted to the alloy manifold on your loom. But that does not matter. IAT is a preset in the ECU on EGR engines. Other than that the only difference would be the gauge temp sensor (one wire brown, two wire Blue) that would need changing as needed to suit your loom, more than likely two wire on yours so blue sender. Just leave the MAF connected and blank off the vac pipe from the EGR modulator. It should have a MSB106370 or similar automatic box engine ECU fitted. A manual ECU is no good to you. There is no need to change the engine ECU at all.

 

[Grrrrrr]

Might be diagnostics nearby that could help: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?hl=en&authuser=0&mid=zWbgnomp0Rhg.kLVE2H61D3z4

 

[Mukiwa]

Ok here is an update. This has messed with my head. I'm off up to Catterick today so will be off the forums for about 3 - 4 hours while travelling.

• ECU in the car: MSB 106370
  
• ECU I bought: MSB 100870 - non egr 2.5tdi

• I tried to fit the MSB100870 but the plug catch didn't fit. Left handed into right handed.
• So I swapped the ECU casings over. Fitted the ECU. Car would turn over but not fire up. Balderdash.
• Swapped the ECU's back again, fitted the 106370 (as stated on the ECU label) and it fired up no problem.

My thoughts are that I'm stuffed without a diagnostic box, but maybe the garage that did the work actually swapped the ECU internals over but didn't change the labels or tell me. There are no board id's etc on the ECU pcb's that I could identify them with either.
Any ideas about the ECU's then?

PS. FPI is definitely weeping diesel so I need to order new gaskets for that and the triangle bolt replacement.
Hoppy utterly baffled but loves a challenge

 

[Mukiwa]

Might be diagnostics nearby that could help: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?hl=en&authuser=0&mid=zWbgnomp0Rhg.kLVE2H61D3z4

Thanks Grrrr. Really appreciate that. I'll just have to find out what my chosen victims like to drink hehehe ;->

 

[wammers]

Ok here is an update. This has messed with my head. I'm off up to Catterick today so will be off the forums for about 3 - 4 hours while travelling.

• ECU in the car: MSB 106370
  
• ECU I bought: MSB 100870 - non egr 2.5tdi

• I tried to fit the MSB100870 but the plug catch didn't fit. Left handed into right handed.
• So I swapped the ECU casings over. Fitted the ECU. Car would turn over but not fire up. Balderdash.
• Swapped the ECU's back again, fitted the 106370 (as stated on the ECU label) and it fired up no problem.

My thoughts are that I'm stuffed without a diagnostic box, but maybe the garage that did the work actually swapped the ECU internals over but didn't change the labels or tell me. There are no board id's etc on the ECU pcb's that I could identify them with either.
Any ideas about the ECU's then?

PS. FPI is definitely weeping diesel so I need to order new gaskets for that and the triangle bolt replacement.
Hoppy utterly baffled but loves a challenge

Did you not read my last post? You do not need to change the ECU. Just leave everything as it is. Basically you are running the car with the EGR disconnected that is all, as long as you leave the MAF and EGR modulator connected all will be fine. You need to look at the temp gauge sensor and maybe fit the overheat sensor (Black unit) to the back port on the new engine which if yours is MY 1999 it should have fitted. If you now have an alloy manifold you will need a new top turbo hose no need to connect the IAT sensor under the manifold.. BECM will need syncing to any new ECU that is set robust before car will run. You need a MSB106370 ECU.

 

[Mukiwa]

Thanks Wammers. Yes I did read it, but I'd already paid for the other ECU. I'll get onto the other things this week. Fingers crossed for the weather.