Newbie to both the forums and LR.. bit overwhelmed.

[domino]

Hi all. Not sure if this is the right area but seeing as it's RR related and specific to the P38 I'm guessing it's as good a place as any!

I have a list of cars that I want to have owned and among this list is the P38. Not sure why, many people tell me I'm nuts, but alas, it's there nonetheless. Ideally, I'd like to run one of the V8's (perhaps with LPG) however the more I read up on the P38 the more put-off I am with them. I'm being pushed more towards the 2.5 and specifically the BMW engined ones. Of course, that could be complete tosh and I'm barking up the wrong tree entirely!

I guess what I'm asking is, despite the huge amount of information out there on t'internet I'm still at a loss as to what I should be avoiding and what variant I should be looking to get my hands on.

The only thing I do know is that, ideally, I'd like a Vogue or HSE spec (just for the 'toys' and comfort level though I've still not found a definitive list as to what's included in what trim level!

Can anyone help a completely lost soul?

 

[Datatek]

Personally I wouldn't have the V8 as a gift, others will disagree, HGF, dropped liners, cracked blocks, worn camshafts and sundry oil leaks.
The diesel is likely to be more reliable as long as the cooling system is looked after.
All P38's need a lot of TLC, get a good diesel and it will be reliable if you sort the known maintenance problems like the airsprings.

 

[domino]

Is there a particular year cut off I should be looking at? i.e. only 97 on or something similar?

Can you also advise on the trim levels at all? I'm seeing "DSE" and "DHSE".. argghh.

 

[quavey]

I would of course say the opposite and a range rover should have a petrol V8. The performance from a later 99 onwards 4.6 is just a different league to the diesel and the sound of the V8 is just brilliant. (99 onwards had a Thor engine with a different intake manifold and ECU etc to improve low end torque and the difference between a 4.6 gems is startling. My friend has a Gems and when I drive it I cant understand what the matter with it is!)

I am fairly sure the route of most issues with the V8's are LPG related closely followed by lack of servicing by "traditional" landrover owners who think a service is filling it up with fuel.

As for trim levels as far as I know there is basically the SE and HSE (the D being added for diesels so DSE and DHSE) There was also a DT model which I think is the most basic spec, no sunroof manual seats etc. With the petrols the SE was generally a 4.0 and the HSE was a 4.6 although I think it was possible to ask for a HSE with a 4.0 engine. The HSE being the top spec from 95-99.

From 2000 onwards the Vogue came into being (so if you see a 97 vogue its got a 99p badge from ebay...) which I did at one time think came standard with Satnav but Ive since seen a couple without but this could of course be badge work etc.

Things like the "county spec" im sure were low in the pecking order, although ironic as a defender county was high spec although im sure people will correct if im wrong. There were other models such as the Vogue 50 (very cool awesome spec) and westminster which was a run out model and again I'm pretty sure was just a badge.

2000 onwards Vogues are by far the best spec although a 99 HSE (like mine) isnt bad and comes with the better Thor engine and chrome interior handles, Squidgy arm rests etc. Certainly better than a 96 HSE my friend has... (Although hes just bought a 2000 Vogue so I'm secretly hoping it explodes on the way home...!)

 

[Datatek]

Is there a particular year cut off I should be looking at? i.e. only 97 on or something similar?

Can you also advise on the trim levels at all? I'm seeing "DSE" and "DHSE".. argghh.

MY2000 on are better. DSE, DHSE are a bit misleading, they are a typical BMW kit of parts, for example, my DHSE has no sunroof or electric seats, my DT scrapper has a sunroof and no aircon. You could add or delete options at the time of purchase. Personally I don't like sunroofs as they leak so it suits me that mine does not have one.
Never buy one with faults unless you are prepared for a lot of DIY, remember Range rovers are not a car, they are a hobby
If you do a search, you will find a buyers guide.

 

[quavey]

MY2000 on are better. DSE, DHSE are a bit misleading, they are a typical BMW kit of parts, for example, my DHSE has no sunroof or electric seats, my DT scrapper has a sunroof and no aircon. You could add or delete options at the time of purchase. Personally I don't like sunroofs as they leak so it suits me that mine does not have one.
Never buy one with faults unless you are prepared for a lot of DIY, remember Range rovers are not a car, they are a hobby
If you do a search, you will find a buyers guide.

That does surprise me. I have a 97 brochure which lists each spec and most of them have no options as such, I will check when I get home as to what is listed in it.

Do the log books state the trim level for yours Datatek? I do wonder with replacement tailgates being so popular that cars could very easily be misbadged... whether genuinely or mistakenly...

 

[Datatek]

I would of course say the opposite and a range rover should have a petrol V8. The performance from a later 99 onwards 4.6 is just a different league to the diesel and the sound of the V8 is just brilliant. (99 onwards had a Thor engine with a different intake manifold and ECU etc to improve low end torque and the difference between a 4.6 gems is startling. My friend has a Gems and when I drive it I cant understand what the matter with it is!)

I am fairly sure the route of most issues with the V8's are LPG related closely followed by lack of servicing by "traditional" landrover owners who think a service is filling it up with fuel.

As for trim levels as far as I know there is basically the SE and HSE (the D being added for diesels so DSE and DHSE) There was also a DT model which I think is the most basic spec, no sunroof manual seats etc. With the petrols the SE was generally a 4.0 and the HSE was a 4.6 although I think it was possible to ask for a HSE with a 4.0 engine. The HSE being the top spec from 95-99.

From 2000 onwards the Vogue came into being (so if you see a 97 vogue its got a 99p badge from ebay...) which I did at one time think came standard with Satnav but Ive since seen a couple without but this could of course be badge work etc.

Things like the "county spec" im sure were low in the pecking order, although ironic as a defender county was high spec although im sure people will correct if im wrong. There were other models such as the Vogue 50 (very cool awesome spec) and westminster which was a run out model and again I'm pretty sure was just a badge.

2000 onwards Vogues are by far the best spec although a 99 HSE (like mine) isnt bad and comes with the better Thor engine and chrome interior handles, Squidgy arm rests etc. Certainly better than a 96 HSE my friend has... (Although hes just bought a 2000 Vogue so I'm secretly hoping it explodes on the way home...!)

A chipped diesel will stay with a V8.
There are loads of specials such as Holland & Holland, remember, more gizmos = more things to go wrong.

 

[domino]

so a 99 HSE would be the 4.6 V8 and the newer Thor engine? Do they suffer from the same problems as the earlier V8's? Also, I believe the newer V8's (Thor) are the Banana engines, right?!

So, what I want is the later V8 (99 on) will be the 4.6 and is the better model, ideally without LPG (as that's where problem start.. perhaps heat related?) and I want to be going for the HSE or Vogue.

What I really want to make sure of is comfy seats, reliability (would you trust it to take you to London from Edinburgh and back..?) and aircon/climate and electric seats. That's my 'base' spec I guess

 

[Datatek]

That does surprise me. I have a 97 brochure which lists each spec and most of them have no options as such, I will check when I get home as to what is listed in it.

Do the log books state the trim level for yours Datatek? I do wonder with replacement tailgates being so popular that cars could very easily be misbadged... whether genuinely or mistakenly...

Both log books are correct to the tailgate nomenclature. The variety of options that may or may not be fitted has been covered many times.

 

[quavey]

A chipped diesel will stay with a V8.
There are loads of specials such as Holland & Holland, remember, more gizmos = more things to go wrong.

Right up to the point it melts its gearbox

 

[domino]

..see, this is the problem... one's saying get the 4.6 V8.. another saying the Diesel 2.5 is better.

Arghhh :\ Where do I put my money! lol

 

[Datatek]

so a 99 HSE would be the 4.6 V8 and the newer Thor engine? Do they suffer from the same problems as the earlier V8's? Also, I believe the newer V8's (Thor) are the Banana engines, right?!
Once LR over bored the 3.5 to 4.0, they all suffered with block & liner problems, that includes the 4.6.


So, what I want is the later V8 (99 on) will be the 4.6 and is the better model, ideally without LPG (as that's where problem start.. perhaps heat related?) and I want to be going for the HSE or Vogue.
The main problem is the thinness of the overbored block and poor quality control.

What I really want to make sure of is comfy seats, reliability (would you trust it to take you to London from Edinburgh and back..?) and aircon/climate and electric seats. That's my 'base' spec I guess

IMO the leather seats are very comfortable, among the best I have experienced. I regularly travel from my home in France to the UK and back and down to the south of France, but then I run a diesel

 

[Datatek]

Right up to the point it melts its gearbox

Less of a problem if it has the required regular oil changes and upgrading to the stronger 4HP24 box is cheap and simple, much less expensive than fixing a blown V8

 

[Datatek]

..see, this is the problem... one's saying get the 4.6 V8.. another saying the Diesel 2.5 is better.

Arghhh :\ Where do I put my money! lol

Depends on what you want, noisy macho thirsty unreliable V8 or quiet economical more reliable diesel

 

[quavey]

so a 99 HSE would be the 4.6 V8 and the newer Thor engine? Do they suffer from the same problems as the earlier V8's? Also, I believe the newer V8's (Thor) are the Banana engines, right?!

So, what I want is the later V8 (99 on) will be the 4.6 and is the better model, ideally without LPG (as that's where problem start.. perhaps heat related?) and I want to be going for the HSE or Vogue.

What I really want to make sure of is comfy seats, reliability (would you trust it to take you to London from Edinburgh and back..?) and aircon/climate and electric seats. That's my 'base' spec I guess

Yes the Thor engine has the banana shaped intake manifold on the top.

I would recommend a Thor 4.6 V8 over my experience of an early 4.6 and a diesel. I never saw the point of the 4.0 unless you particularly wanted a manual V8. People harp on about the 4.6's being more prone to blowing across cylinders but this cannot be true as they use the same block. The extra swept capacity being obtained through stroking rather than an increase in cylinder bore.

However really with these cars its buying on condition rather than spec/milage and be prepared to treat them as a hobby.

I wouldn't think twice about driving mine from London to Edinburgh other than frequent stops at a petrol station. I have complete faith in it, its not without its minor issues here and there

As for the LPG issue many will say there is nothing wrong with it but I'm sure most owners there is a compromise with it and it doesnt run as well as it should on either petrol or LPG due to the mapping etc. If landrover had wanted it to be on LPG they'd have offered it from factory... Thats my opinion and standpoint anyway.

 

[quavey]

Less of a problem if it has the required regular oil changes and upgrading to the stronger 4HP24 box is cheap and simple, much less expensive than fixing a blown V8

Well its a good thing lots of V8's break then to donate their gearboxes

 

[domino]

Depends on what you want, noisy macho thirsty unreliable V8 or quiet economical more reliable diesel

Cost of fuel isn't a concern here - I've run V8 muscle cars before and seeing anything over 20mpg was very.. well, it just didn't happen.

I'm all for a hobby car.. but when I get in and turn the key I want to be able to drive it. If some of the electrics have suddenly stopped working then fair enough.. but it needs to get me from A to B. I do have other cars.. but if I wanted something that was going to break down constantly.. I'd be looking at an Alfa.

 

[dogsbody]

so a 99 HSE would be the 4.6 V8 and the newer Thor engine? Do they suffer from the same problems as the earlier V8's? Also, I believe the newer V8's (Thor) are the Banana engines, right?!

So, what I want is the later V8 (99 on) will be the 4.6 and is the better model, ideally without LPG (as that's where problem start.. perhaps heat related?) and I want to be going for the HSE or Vogue.

What I really want to make sure of is comfy seats, reliability (would you trust it to take you to London from Edinburgh and back..?) and aircon/climate and electric seats. That's my 'base' spec I guess

I don't know about London to Edinburgh but a couple of months back I was doing Bristol to Perth, twice a week for six weeks.

But then, as Datatek says, I drive a diesel.

 

[Datatek]

Well its a good thing lots of V8's break then to donate their gearboxes

Yep, plenty available at about £200 Often with very low mileage perhaps due to the fuel costs of the V8

 

[Datatek]

Cost of fuel isn't a concern here - I've run V8 muscle cars before and seeing anything over 20mpg was very.. well, it just didn't happen.

I'm all for a hobby car.. but when I get in and turn the key I want to be able to drive it. If some of the electrics have suddenly stopped working then fair enough.. but it needs to get me from A to B. I do have other cars.. but if I wanted something that was going to break down constantly.. I'd be looking at an Alfa.

The V8 suffers from loss of synch between the engine ECU and the BECM more often than the diesel, this means you can get in it and turn the key and go nowhere.
Think 10/12mpg around and about, maybe 18 mpg on a run unless you believe the message centre which might lead you to believe it does 20+ mpg whereas my diesel has a long term brim to brim average of 24mpg and up to 30mpg on a run.