Can i install IRD from 2.5l v6 in a 1.8l freelander?

[lazmuler]

I have a 1.8l freelander which i've used mostly for city driving. For the past 6 months i have been driving upcountry every week and the car has difficulty going over 120kph. At 120kph the revs are at 3500rpm and seems to be staining. Within city driving i have no problems since speed is not really an issue.



I should also point out that after going though the usual 1.8l k-series nightmares i swapped my engine with a 1.8l toyota 7aFE engine two years ago.. best decision i ever made. Towards the end, the original engine could manage 110kph at best. The current setup still uses the original wiring setup, MEMS controller and all sensors from LR, as well as the original PG1 type gearbox.



My question is, can i change the standard IRD in the 1.8l with the one from 2.5l v6 auto? I know the 1.8l IRD has a ratio of 1.467 : 1, and the v6 has a ratio of 1.359 : 1. How will the different gear ratios affect performance? I'm hoping that finally at 120kph the revs should be lower and hence improve efficiency and speed? correct me if i'm wrong.



Any help will be appreciated. Maybe someone has tried the IRD swap before?

 

[storm99]

hello

 

[johndog666]

Out of interest what toyota is your engine out of, I've just done the head gasket on my 1.8 today with the usual mods but if it goes again I would just be looking to swap the engine for a better lump.

 

[gareth123]

Toyota 7aFE is used in the old Celicas (Gen 6) and possisbly others (Corolla?) - not a high performance engine 8v SOHC but very reliable and excellent on economy (most Celicas come with the 2.0 16v DOHC 3GSE engine). I have a Celica Gen 5 with the 3GSE which is what they put in the RAV 4 at the beginning.

We have different Toyota engines but at 4k revs I am doing about 140 kph.

 

[johndog666]

Is there much modification to make it fit, ie to the freeland box etc.

 

[gareth123]

Toyota 7aFE is used in the old Celicas (Gen 6) and possisbly others (Corolla?) - not a high performance engine 8v SOHC but very reliable and excellent on economy (most Celicas come with the 2.0 16v DOHC 3GSE engine). I have a Celica Gen 5 with the 3GSE which is what they put in the RAV 4 at the beginning.

We have different Toyota engines but at 4k revs I am doing about 140 kph.

Sorry in case people are wondering I have not done a conversion - I have two cars - a Freelander 1 Di and a Toyota Celica Gen 5. Just wanted to let people know about the Toyota engines.

 

[Soloby Rob]

hello

Hi

 

[lazmuler]

Is there much modification to make it fit, ie to the freeland box etc.

The modification is tricky and extensive but if you know what you're doing, here's my setup. On the freelander side there's not much meddling since you want to retain everything as stock.

Mechanically, the tricky part is getting the engine and gearbox to be perfectly centered since the two will obviously not match, when doing the adapter plate take that into consideration. The flywheel from the k-series engine had the holes filled in then drilled to match the toyota crank. That way the original clutch setup and starter on the gearbox side were retained.

The intake assembly with the throttle position sensor and butterfly from the K-series were used. The Idle Air Control Valve was fitted between the intake and butterfly assembly. A hole was drilled on the intake for the MAP sensor.

On the toyota engine the sensors from the k-series engine were fitted/ replaced the toyota sensors, namely - Oil pressure, Oil temperature, Engine coolant temperature, Camshaft position sensor (CMP), Crankshaft position sensor (CKP).

Since the toyota engine does not have a CMP sensor, a half-cylindrical shape reluctor was added to the exhaust camshaft and a hole was drilled on the right side of the cylinder head to pick the signal. Finally, the CKP sensor was installed on the rear side on the block on the flywheel side to pick the signal from the flywheel for ignition timing.

With the hard part over, the k-series fuel injectors were machined to fit into the toyota fuel rail and the toyota ignition coils were also replaced. With this setup the ECM reads the the sensors and controls the engine exactly the same way it would with the original 1.8l k-series engine.

 

[lazmuler]

So has anyone tried the IRD swap?

 

[Nodge68]

Interesting that you chose to swap the K series for a Toyota engine. Has the ECU been mapped to take the new engines parameters?
As for the IRD swap? The casing is different but i'm not sure if the gear set might or might not fit? Something to look into!! I'd like to see some pics of the engine install

 

[lazmuler]

Being in Nairobi the toyota swap came naturally since 80% of cars here are toyotas and the engines are cheap. After reading on the known issues with the original engine i knew i was fighting a losing battle. The 7AFE was the closest match in hp, torque and weight.
The ECU was not mapped.. maybe thats why i get an irregular idle when the engine is cold but its never bothered me. I'm avoiding experimenting with the IRD since i don't have another car to use so i'm trying to get as much information as possible before i bring out the tools!
I'll try take pics tomorrow and post.

 

[Nodge68]

Being in Nairobi the toyota swap came naturally since 80% of cars here are toyotas and the engines are cheap. After reading on the known issues with the original engine i knew i was fighting a losing battle. The 7AFE was the closest match in hp, torque and weight.
The ECU was not mapped.. maybe thats why i get an irregular idle when the engine is cold but its never bothered me. I'm avoiding experimenting with the IRD since i don't have another car to use so i'm trying to get as much information as possible before i bring out the tools!
I'll try take pics tomorrow and post.

If you haven't mapped the ECU to the new engine you are doing well to get it running let alone actually move the car!! A remap will really help it run properly. As for your IRD issue. Could you not get a V6 and a 1.8 unit to strip them both on the bench? This would show the differences and go from there?

 

[lazmuler]

Interesting that you chose to swap the K series for a Toyota engine. Has the ECU been mapped to take the new engines parameters?
As for the IRD swap? The casing is different but i'm not sure if the gear set might or might not fit? Something to look into!! I'd like to see some pics of the engine install

Here are the pics. I took a photo of the dash console when the car is running.. no ecu errors

 

[matt1295]

nice to see a Freelander running a different petrol engine

 

[lazmuler]

So i finally got the answer from a.. specialist.

"You should be able to fit the V6 IRD on your 1.8, the only issue you will have is the cooling plate is facing upwards, so this will need some modification to the connecting hoses. We do not think you will be able to move all the internals from the V6 IRD into a 1.8 casing".

Next week i'll do the swap.

 

[matt1295]

i have read somewhere that you dnt need to connect the cooler to the pipes and just join the to coolent pipes together with a little bit of tubing

will see if i can find where i read it and try and link it for you

 

[Nodge68]

So i finally got the answer from a.. specialist.

"You should be able to fit the V6 IRD on your 1.8, the only issue you will have is the cooling plate is facing upwards, so this will need some modification to the connecting hoses. We do not think you will be able to move all the internals from the V6 IRD into a 1.8 casing".

Next week i'll do the swap.

Is that rite? I'm sure the mounting lugs are in different places. You'd be better getting the ECU correctly mapped to the engine imho

 

[lazmuler]

In see the point in remappint the ECU, my problem is that i don't know of anyone who does that in Nairobi. All the diagnostic guys i know of do OBD error codes, clearing etc.

You sure about the mounting lugs?

 

[Nodge68]

In see the point in remappint the ECU, my problem is that i don't know of anyone who does that in Nairobi. All the diagnostic guys i know of do OBD error codes, clearing etc.

You sure about the mounting lugs?

If you don't have access to a rolling road where the operator has the equipment and knowledge to map the ECU then you are going to struggle It's a shame that all the work installing the new engine is compromised by less than ideal fuel/ ignition maps.
I'm thought the IRD to box lugs are in different places. If they are a strait swap then let me know as i'm working on fitting a manual box to my V6. If the IRD i'v got fits then that's one less thing to get.

 

[FreeTaz]

Have you still got this project in mind?

At first glance, I see the IRD swap as possible, but it is unlikely to be confined to just the IRD.
To begin with, the IRD casings and internals are different, leading to the possibility that the external dimensions do not match, especially in the output shaft position and/or size.
There are different part numbers for the driveshafts, and from memory the wheel bearings as well, therefore the only way to do it would be to have good samples of each to compare minutely.
This would apply to everything from the input shaft (as well as the L/H output shaft inside the input shaft) right through to wheel bearings and hub splines.

There are probably great results possible for the change in ratio, and it might be of great interest to a lot of Freebie owners out there, but a lot of measuring needs to be done first.