drop arm ball joint / TRE style mystery

[agew]

I've scanned previous threads, but not found answer to this one.

I'm guessing the 1/4 inch or more I can lift the drag link up away from the drop arm ball joint is not good......

I have a repair kit, but facing the drop arm removal nightmare I see that my X reg 110 County drop arm has a 'track rod' type threaded connection of the ball joint to the end of the drop arm. The ball joint itself looks like the 'normal' cast 'cup' with base plate held in by circlip and pin inside etc (tho I haven't looked too closely as I was in the middle of an oil change when I made this discovery).

Can anyone tell me if there was a change of set up on production to a TRE type threaded mounting? If that is what I have then shirley I can just loosen the clamp, screw it out (I guess a reference measurement of the drop arm end to ball pin is needed first), and dismantle and insert repair kit on the bench without removing drop arm?

I do hope I'm not imagining things - the stories on grinding off drop arms are a far too long-winded task for my patience, and I'd have to get a new drop arm.

Any expert knowledge out there much appreciated - keen to get the job done as a) the play is kind of worrying and b) might explain the rather vague steering at the moment...... . Cheers, A

 

[jamesmartin]

any play at all is too much .there are two types of ball joint , those that are part of drop arm and drag link has a eye that goes over it and those that use std tre and drop arm has eye in it (as used on later discos),ball joint thats part of drop arm can be changed with drop arm in situ by using a jack and suitable punch etc to press disc up to release circlip ,seat can be pulled down out of arm using puller tool ,new seat with tap up using suitable socket http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...u4GwDw&usg=AFQjCNEM9W2KUVzCzY-uIpC_RwueuoqW9A

 

[agew]

Quick reply James! I'll have a better look when it stops p-ing down..... Drag link definitely has eye to drop over drop arm end..... but I'm sure drop arm end was threaded and clamped. Maybe I was dreaming (hallucinating after spending many hours replacing all the rear caliper pistons and seals probably - another story but what a difference!)

Will let you know what I find on second look - thanks for the reference point, and that I can do it in situ even if non-removable ball joint 'end', with some gymnastics....... A:5bcheers2:

 

[Shifty1962]

Did mine in situ as I broke two pullers trying to get the poxy arm off and did not fancy bashing the crap out of it with lump hammers and wedges etc.
Got the old seat out using a slide hammer.
Pressed the new seat in by using suitable socket and a large G cramp.
Hardest bit was compressing the dust cap and trying to get the circlip back in.
Just make sure you clean out the groove for the circlip to fit back in to.

 

[agew]

Cheers Shifty - will report back when I get a chance to 'get under'. Working all day tomorrow and Weds, so see what dry bits we get after that.

Given that I can lift the pin a quarter inch or more, I doubt the spring is forcing back against the dust cap, so removing the circlip might be the easy bit......

Watch this space..... Cheers, A

 

[agew]

Well, the TRE style fitment/question was bo**ocks of course - perfectly 'normal' cast Drop Arm with cast seat for the ball joint.

So, dismantled in situ - splitting the joint off the drag link was a hoot.... 12 years worth of binding in place, a lot of splitter pressure led to much swearing and a bit of 'encouragement' before it gave with an enormous bang! Thought the splitter had broken, but all fine and now separated.

Old pin assembly dismantled with lots of WD40 and some bashing of the pin and lower cup out of the casting.

But...!!! What the heck to do with the top of the 'cup' drifted into the top of the casting where the pin exits???? The play in the pin has allowed the shaft to bash most of the 'lip' of the upper cup so it is more or less level with the casting top itself - nothing (pretty much) to get a punch or drift onto so getting nowhere fast.

Blow lamp no discernable movement.

Dremel cutter on the internal surface of the cup has made some cuts but not noticeably relieved the drag/friction/crud holding it in.

Gave up lunch time (to go off for son's wedding suit fitting - woohoo). On the bike riding back thoughts turn to dremelling the thin wall of the cup round the circumference (it is well 'dished' from the play in the ball, so v thin in places) to split it into slices with less drag on each slice....?

Any other ideas useful - worst case that pesky drop arm is going to have to come off after all (with all the nightmare tales that has generated) and get it machined out, but I really don't fancy that and could do with finshing the job tomorrow......

Ideas folks? Cheers, A

 

[jamesmartin]

it goes in from the bottom a special tool like one i linked to or made one will just catch inner edge and pull it out

 

[agew]

it goes in from the bottom a special tool like one i linked to or made one will just catch inner edge and pull it out

Not forgotten or ignored JM - thanks. I have a cunning Heath Robinson version sketched out in my mind, but really not convinced I have enough 'lip' to catch on. I'll give the outside top a good clean up in the morning as it might be that all the corrosion is hiding more to get a purchase on that I realise.

Very frustating as this is holding up what is otherwise a doddle - itching to rebuild it now that I can see how bad it had got.

Appreciate the reminder. Watch this space..... A

 

[jamesmartin]

theres not a lot ,i use a 12m flange bolt with edge ground till just wont go through

 

[DEFENDER90-DAZ]

Drop Arm ball joint - Land Rover Technical Archive - LR4x4 - The Land Rover Forum

Daz

 

[agew]

Ta - will work on that! A

 

[agew]

Cheers Daz - done it all right so far it would seem (there's a first), and its very handy to see the problem I've got close up to give me a lead on how to deal. Reckon taking the arm off really needs to be a very last resort, as I thought..... Thanks for linking it, A

 

[agew]

Well, several hours of bashing and cursing proved that removal of old cap was not going to happen on the truck.

Sourced awesome special drop arm extractor tool from Dingocroft and 'just in case' a full drop arm including ready to roll ball joint.

With breaker bar after much soaking the drop arm gave with an enormous bang ....... and with the old ball joint casting at eye level 100% obvious the cup is welded / annealed into the casting by all the impacts.

Chucking it down by now of course - but no stopping....

New drop arm torqued up with buckets of copper grease on all surfaces - why do Haynes tell you to mark the alignment on the spindle, when the splines are keyed at 12,3,6 and 9 o'clock????. Remembered to bend the washer onto a nut face.....

After much cross checking of drag link length with the drop arm at dead centre (I've had off centre steering wheel since some workshop work last year) I confirmed the link is bang on - the wheel was obviously just mounted sqiff...!

Steering wheel off and moved a spline or so - test drive - mein Gott it goes where you point it!!! Its been getting so bad over time I hadn't really noticed until its back to proper spec. Oddly got rid of a slight grinding noise low speed turns of the wheel too.....

Thanks for all the guidance chaps - the dreadful condition/damage to the old drop arm made the decisions for me, and the guys at Dingocroft prompting me to hire their specialist puller ( a thing of beauty....) saved me much grief, and I cashed in the pristine un-used ball joint repair kit so overall cost was prob only £30 up.

Dead chuffed - on to the clutch master cylinder next week, but hope the MOT will be a breeze later this week.

A

 

[DEFENDER90-DAZ]

Nice 1 mate!!!
Glad you got it sorted!

Any chance of a pic of the sooper dooper puller (got mine to do soon )

Cheers
Daz

 

[agew]

Nice 1 mate!!!
Glad you got it sorted!

Any chance of a pic of the sooper dooper puller (got mine to do soon )

Cheers
Daz

Hi Daz - the 'system' wouldn't let me log on yesterday for some reason....?

Anyway - no pics but if you google 'dingocroft drop arm puller' you'll see it on their page of Bushwacka tools. Only £500 retail.....

Worth every penny to hire it for the day - wish I'd gone for the full drop arm from the very start, would have taken an hour and a half tops instead of 2 days of sweat and tears! A

 

[DEFENDER90-DAZ]

Have heard that if you fit a later disco drop arm its fitted with a normal balljoint thats removeable instead of fannying round with the repair kits???

Daz

 

[trax]

btw the sykes-pickavant (their brake flaring stuff is nice) is an 8 tonner and the bushwaka is 20

 

[agew]

Daz - when I bought the drop arm they distinguished between the 4 bolt and 6 bolt box (the fixing bolts on the top.....) - mine's a 4 bolt and I was given a drop arm with the 'component' ball joint with circlip etc. I shan't be looking inside it for many years I hope! I'd guess the 6 bolt might be the TRE style joint? (goes back to my first doubts/question on the thread - long since answered as much as I needed, ta)

Trax - sounds like I had plenty of that 20 tonnes left if it hadn't let go when it did..... I notice Dingo's had beefed up the welds round the 'turret' tho...

MOT breezed through - worth all the effort. Advisory that front pads on their way - but I've got the Zeus pistons on the shelf waiting for a quiet weekend, so the pads were on the list anyway.

Cheers for all the input chaps. A