Wheel balancing

TheMegaMan said:

Finally broke the bead on the other side of the wheel. Used a mixture of methods...the jack and landy weight to hold the bead breaker firmly in place, so I could care carefully position the bead breaker blade on the tyre. That got it shifted.

There was a tube in the tyre, but I'm pretty sure the wheels are actually tubeless. The ridges aren't as obvious as @dag019 's photos, which is why I didn't really notice the profile from the outside, but there's definitely something there.

View attachment 222066 View attachment 222067

However, despite getting the outside rim off the wheel fairly easily, I can't get the inside edge off. It's a shame, as in the video @Blackburn posted in another thread, made that bit look fairly simple. Even with gloves on, I'm a bit wary of sticking my fingers between the bead and the rim, and I can't make the levers work.

So out with the angle grinder.... Nearly through, but then it started raining just as I got the the tricky bit near the rim. So that's all for today, and I'll see if I can find a sharp cold chisel next time I get a chance to tackle it. Not sure I can cope with another three of these...

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Yes that is indeed a tubless rim so you could run a tubless set up. Depending on how well you know you landy and how old it I would not guarantee that means they all are, my series had a mixture of rims when I bought it. But a tube may hav ebeen fitted as it is cheaper than replacing the tyre after a puncture.

I would not worry too much (obviously being a little sensible) about getting hand in between the rim and the tyre. As long as you have a bar in there that will act as a safety measure meaning you cannot trap your fingers (and even if you do trap them it "just" hurts and from my experience at least doesn't do any lasting damage). To remove the rim from the tyre at this point you want to lay the tyre on the ground so you are removing the rim upwards out of it. Put a single bar between the rim and they tyre and leaver downwards so the rim is sitting at and an upwards angle and then stand on this bar with one foot to hold it in place. You then use the second bar to work around each side of the first (method two in the second link) while the first bar you have a foot on stops it slipping back into the tyre.

Link (about 3min in)
Link (method 2 if you are using shorter bars)

Hmmm. They make that look so easy! I'm pretty sure that's the approach I was taking, but didn't even get close to having the wheel pop out like that. I obviously just don't have the technique. Although I hadn't done any of the lubing...I'll make up some solution and make use of that. I'm going to have to play those clips fame-by-frame when I do it again, and make sure I repeat their moves as accurately as possible.

What's disappointing, is that when I'd got the first bead broken, I got the bead off the outside of the tyre pretty easily. *Everything* else about this exercise has been a complete PITA!

TheMegaMan said:

Hmmm. They make that look so easy! I'm pretty sure that's the approach I was taking, but didn't even get close to having the wheel pop out like that. I obviously just don't have the technique. Although I hadn't done any of the lubing...I'll make up some solution and make use of that. I'm going to have to play those clips fame-by-frame when I do it again, and make sure I repeat their moves as accurately as possible.

What's disappointing, is that when I'd got the first bead broken, I got the bead off the outside of the tyre pretty easily. *Everything* else about this exercise has been a complete PITA!

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Unfortunately getting the first bead off to the outside is easier than getting the second one off. But lube makes a huge difference, similarly when putting tyres back on, the correct tyre soap for refitting makes a huge difference. The other thing to remember is this is your first one so will be very difficult, your second one will be much easier, and so on. I have done quite a few of them now so am getting fairly competent at it. Its a shame you are not more local as I would come and give you a hand, the easiest way to learn is watch someone who knows what they are doing, I learnt by watching and talking to the HGV tyre fitter at work, youtube videos are not quite the same.

Second the use of lube. Washing up liquid in water is a good option.

It looks so easy in the videos, but they do it so quickly, it's difficult to see exactly where to put the levers, step by step. As you say, I'm sure with practice, it'll get easier, but right now, I'm not really looking forward to doing any more at all!

I have plastered a ceiling in the past and it was OK but took me ages. I'm paying a plasterer to plaster a ceiling tomorrow and he will do it in a fraction of the time it would take me.and I won't have stiff shoulders for 2 days. I look on taking tyres off in exaclty the same way, there is no benefit to doing it yourself and considerable disbenefit, that's not counting the very significant difference in the equipment they have. Remenber thosel pillar drill attachments for electric drills, useless and nothing like a real pillar drill. That's my take on "home" bead breakers.

rob1miles said:

I have plastered a ceiling in the past and it was OK but took me ages. I'm paying a plasterer to plaster a ceiling tomorrow and he will do it in a fraction of the time it would take me.and I won't have stiff shoulders for 2 days. I look on taking tyres off in exaclty the same way, there is no benefit to doing it yourself and considerable disbenefit, that's not counting the very significant difference in the equipment they have. Remenber thosel pillar drill attachments for electric drills, useless and nothing like a real pillar drill. That's my take on "home" bead breakers.

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I would agree with you on the home bead breaker front, but I have never have the farm jack under the bumper method fail. It also depends on why and how often you are changing tyres for the benefit. I learnt and persevered with it initially because I wanted to paint the wheels on my series. I have a set of 6 wheels, and the tyre place charged a flat rate for tyre fitting whether it was just removal, just refitting, or removal and refitting in the same visit to change a tyre. This meant that it would have cost me twice the price to get the tyres removed take wheels away to paint and then bring them back to refit tyres. Similarly with puncture repair (tubes) if you regularly off road, run lower(ish) pressures or have a regular route making you prone to punctures tube repairs can soon add up whereas if you can remove a bead and the tube yourself repairing a puncture takes about 20min and costs pennies for a box of patches and some glue. Again with with my tractor, I wanted to paint the wheels, so would have been double the price to get the fitter in and, using that as an example, since painting them I have changed the tyres and am about to remove them again to weld on lugs for dual wheels.
If the only time you ever remove a tyre is the once every 10 years that they need replacing I would agree, it is possibly not worth learning how to do it, and just pay the garage to do it for you, but if you are rebuilding a vehicle I stand by it is a valuable skill to have. The same argument could be levelled at any of the maintenance an old land rover needs, and it would then cost you a fortune putting it into the garage for every item that needs fettling. I am a firm believer in buying the tools, learning how to do the job and doing it yourself. This gives you the skills to do it next time and usually cheaper than paying some else even after you have bought the tools.

I get where you are coming from, (although our break maker has been an winner in lockdown....and, no its not the same as baker's bread). One thing that has troubled me and a trap I've fallen into is trying to do everything myself, even when for safety reasons it should be a 2 person job, not least because if I get hurt i could be lying injured a long time. Most old vehicle jobs are pretty safe but a few have a lot of store energy and would not be done alone ("lone worker") in an employment setting. I once sold a clasic car to a guy in Finland - very interesting, they form local "car clubs" and pool their equipment and this allows them to buy gear like 4 post lifts and tyre gear. Its seemed so much more sensible that the way I was doing things (and still am). My message is, OK, but do be careful!

In my case, I'm going to struggle to fit a complete wheel and new tyre into my daily driver car, and having to take 4 sets to the wheel place is going to be a pain. So my thinking was that getting the old tyres off would help me get them in the car more easily, as well as being able to tidy up the rims properly before getting the new tyres fitted. And as @dag019 says, when the tyre place fits a flat fee for tyre removal and/or fitting, I figured the tools would pay for themselves quickly,..and you can never have too many tools, can you!

I wasn't originally intending to refit the new tyres myself, thinking I'd never get the bead to seal properly, but when I thought I'd probably need to fit tubes anyway, I became more ambitious...

Plus, being able to change a tube in the field is a huge asset if far off the beaten track!

Slowly, slowly, I'm getting there!

Replaced both rear tyres and tidied up the wheels. One of the rears had a tube, so I've refitted both with tubes, even though they are tubeless wheels and tyres. I don't know the reason the tube was there before, so wondering if the wheel didn't seal well, for some reason.

On to the fronts, now, and I thought I'd give these a go without tubes.

What's the trick to getting the beads to seat well enough to actually allow the pressure in the tyre to build up?

I've pressed the tyre down onto the inner edge enough to get what I think is a reasonable seal, but I've got a significant gap (maybe an inch to get it to seal) to the outer edge. I've tried lifting the tyre so the bead fits closer to the outer edge, but I can't get a good enough seal to build up enough pressure for it to begin to push itself on any further. I've tried removing the valve core in the hope I'd get faster air flow into the tyre, but still no joy (plus I'll lose the pressure and probably the tyre will slip off again when I remove the airline, if it's not fully located the bead.

Any hints or tips, please?

Or should I just fit tubes all around and be done with it?

>>I've pressed the tyre down onto the inner edge ....

There's no need to go mad with this - if the tyre is touching the rim all the way round,it will seal enough to begin with.

Sometimes a ratchet strap around the crown of the tread can open the beads up a bit,and help them to touch the rim.

If it's close to sealing, standing the wheel upright can also be helpful.

I'd stand that on a ring of bricks and stand on it with the airline connected, there's a good chance it will touch. Otherwise its the can of hairspray/brake cleaner/lighter fluid and a lighter.

And we want to see the video if you do!

Is it a tubeless rim?
If the gap is too big or you can't deliver enough air quick enough, you can pack the gap with copious amounts of grease. That will hold the air enough to get the bead to the rim scrape it off and back into a container before the bead snaps on to the rim or it will go everywhere!!

rob1miles said:

I'd stand that on a ring of bricks and stand on it with the airline connected, there's a good chance it will touch. Otherwise its the can of hairspray/brake cleaner/lighter fluid and a lighter.

And we want to see the video if you do!

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Those tyres look too narrow for the rims

Definitely a tubeless rim.

I've seen that trick done before, but I'm not sure my gf would tolerate me trying that. Definitely a last resort... Don't hold your breath waiting for the video!

The ratchet strap is going to be easy to try. I'll give the other methods a try, too, although I'm going to need an awful lot of grease to fill the gap, I think.

The tyre places really make it look very easy, and I was hoping that I'd have easily been able to close the gap enough for it to 'catch', but not a sign of it. Maybe my compressor just isn't up to the job. The tyre sidewalls are very stiff, and I think maybe the tyres have been stored in such a way that they've been squashed a bit, meaning the gap between the beads is a lot narrower than I'd have expected for a 7.5 tyre.

Takes quite a bit of practice demounting car tyres....I have been doing it 50years just for myself.
Made my own bead breaker...well on the Mk2 now.
I have fitted tubeless tyres on my old std rims....for getting on 30 year....so much better and a big weight saving....its not a prob fitting them on tubeless rims...losts will say it is but that how it was when tubeless tyre first appeared in the 50s I think it was.

So much more reliable and if punctured usually its just a slow puncher.

As I say best part of 30 years experience...as have 2 of my pals....pay no attention to those who have never tried or thought about it and say its a danger.
Not sure if you know...but there is a side of the rim to pull the bead over first...both sides are not the same.

When breaking the bead...go all around the bead in small chunks...putting lube in the gap as you go.
Nick.

I don't want to get into the tubeless/tubed rims argument. Mine are all tubeless anyway, so it's a moot point. Just to say that IMHO, there's a reason that tubeless rims evolved to include the ridge.

Anyway, I put a ratchet strap around the tyre - maybe helped a bit, but still quite a large gap.

Then put the wheel in a ring of bricks, and perfect! The weight of wheel alone was almost enough to close the gap, so just needed a little extra weight, and bingo! Completely seated OK, and inflated. Just need to wait to make sure it's holding air adequately, but looking good so far.

Many thanks for all the suggestions.