New td5 cylinder head issues!

allan108 said:

Thanks for the response, that’s a fair point, I guess I’m clutching at straws, there was plenty of oil in the injector loom plug on the engine loom side, so thought it’s probably best.

Not thought about the coolant readings, I’ll see what they show in the morning.

Thanks.

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As well as fuel and water temp sensors you have the ambient air pressure sensor inside the airbox,
Got to say though the grey/blue smoke makes me think injector seals. Were genuine Land Rover seals and washers used on assembly as after market are known to be suspect?

johnlad said:

As well as fuel and water temp sensors you have the ambient air pressure sensor inside the airbox,
Got to say though the grey/blue smoke makes me think injector seals. Were genuine Land Rover seals and washers used on assembly as after market are known to be suspect?

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It would appear you are correct! Loom made no difference, except rule it out of my mind!

I have just had the seals re - replaced with genuine landrover ones, so hopefully it’s not seals.




Runs so rough to start with, only clears if I drive it.

I’m leaning to my injectors not being built setup correctly.

allan108 said:

It would appear you are correct! Loom made no difference, except rule it out of my mind!

I have just had the seals re - replaced with genuine landrover ones, so hopefully it’s not seals.




Runs so rough to start with, only clears if I drive it.

I’m leaning to my injectors not being built setup correctly.

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I think you’d be getting black smoke if injector fault, still looks like seals to me.
The injector seats have to be spotlessly clean before fitting injector otherwise a good seal cannot be made
What year td5 is it

Ours had similar symptoms then one day taken home on recovery truck. Piston rings had gone . Piston and bore fubar.

I don’t think injector seals are the problem. If it was, you’d have a pressurised fuel rail which will eventually starve the engine of fuel and it would stop.
If seals did give the symptoms at start up it would also do it when warm.

And how does it start? Straight away or difficult?

Alpinejim said:

I don’t think injector seals are the problem. If it was, you’d have a pressurised fuel rail which will eventually starve the engine of fuel and it would stop.
If seals did give the symptoms at start up it would also do it when warm.

And how does it start? Straight away or difficult?

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Mine started and ran and smoked like a dog when seals needed doing, once warm it burnt the extra fuel.

ok interesting replies!

- I really hope its not seals, as that would be 4 sets?!! and i asked the workshop to take extra care and they have the tool to cut the face if required, but i guess this does not rule it out?!

- I also hope its not the rings! whilst the head was off, we inspected the bores and they looked in good condition. I have also had a cylinder leak check carried out ( on the 4 accessible ones and the pressure was all good.

maybe i need to take it to another specialist and let them have a go?

On a separate note, i made a video whilst i changed the injector harness, clearly not instructional! but fun learning to make videos.

ta.

allan108 said:

ok interesting replies!

- I really hope its not seals, as that would be 4 sets?!! and i asked the workshop to take extra care and they have the tool to cut the face if required, but i guess this does not rule it out?!

- I also hope its not the rings! whilst the head was off, we inspected the bores and they looked in good condition. I have also had a cylinder leak check carried out ( on the 4 accessible ones and the pressure was all good.

maybe i need to take it to another specialist and let them have a go?

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Has the timing been checked since the head was off?

You could try 5 used injectors, if you get same problem, then not that , ideally change one at a time and try it, if gets worse new injector no good if gets better old one no good, if slightly better each time then they have not made good job of rebuilding injectors, might be good to have a compression test done on each cylinder at the same time

When I ran the engine with the oil filler cap off I had this effect. After the piston rings had gone.

I think you need to get something like nanocom plugged into it and look for a duff reading, it's so easy to fall into the trap of change this and see if it works. I bet that untold thousands have been spent on chasing problems on TD5 engines, would dread to think how many fuel pumps have been bought only to find that's not it what next.

raywin said:

I think you need to get something like nanocom plugged into it and look for a duff reading, it's so easy to fall into the trap of change this and see if it works. I bet that untold thousands have been spent on chasing problems on TD5 engines, would dread to think how many fuel pumps have been bought only to find that's not it what next.

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i have a nanocom, on the previous page i posted the video of it showing the data, but yes i am that mug who has and is spending thousands on replacing everything, to no avail.

johnlad said:

Has the timing been checked since the head was off?

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no,not really. i played with the cam position ( small adjustment by loosening the 3 bolts on the front of cam). it made a huge difference, as i was convinced it was timing, workshop told me it was not possible to get it wrong. is there a digital way to check timing?

thanks.

brianconwy said:

When I ran the engine with the oil filler cap off I had this effect. After the piston rings had gone.

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luckily mine does not do this! thats a fair bit of pressure!

allan108 said:

no,not really. i played with the cam position ( small adjustment by loosening the 3 bolts on the front of cam). it made a huge difference, as i was convinced it was timing, workshop told me it was not possible to get it wrong. is there a digital way to check timing?

thanks.

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From what you are describing I am inclined to think that temperature is the key do you get any obvious wrong readings of temepratures?
Timeing should be done with timing pins ( quite cheap on Tbay) : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rov...377486?hash=item4d914f560e:g:rO8AAOSwOyJX4TbG
be sure to take out the chain tensioner and take all of the slack out of the chaion on the opposite side to the tensioner while you nip the sprocket bolts up read up on it and be sure to get it right, so that you dont damage something.

I’d stop firing tuning parts at it unti it’s working correctly,
Start with basics like checking timing using the timing pins, you’ve already said a minor adjustment made a huge difference, and if your not doing it yourself possibly find a different workshop/garage

raywin said:

I think you need to get something like nanocom plugged into it and look for a duff reading, it's so easy to fall into the trap of change this and see if it works. I bet that untold thousands have been spent on chasing problems on TD5 engines, would dread to think how many fuel pumps have been bought only to find that's not it what next.

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I think this is the problem with all electronic controlled engines, even with things like nanocom plugged in it is still hard to get to the bottom of some faults, you need to be able to work back to a point, If timing was out would it not run bad at all speeds and also when hot? was all running well before head went? did having injectors done make it better or worse? does it start easy when cold or when hot?

johnlad said:

I’d stop firing tuning parts at it unti it’s working correctly,
Start with basics like checking timing using the timing pins, you’ve already said a minor adjustment made a huge difference, and if your not doing it yourself possibly find a different workshop/garage

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Yep your right! Only fired the new map, as I had no idea what map was on the car if any, so this ruled that variable out.
I’m having to recover the ground workshop carried out, as we ( them and me) have not got to the bottom. I’m not saying they have done a bad job, as I have them a Landy with unknown issues, so they may we’ll have sorted what we knew at the time.

Ian M in France said:

I think this is the problem with all electronic controlled engines, even with things like nanocom plugged in it is still hard to get to the bottom of some faults, you need to be able to work back to a point, If timing was out would it not run bad at all speeds and also when hot? was all running well before head went? did having injectors done make it better or worse? does it start easy when cold or when hot?

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Yes I agree, even with the nanocom, you really need to know what you are looking at.

- but temps do seem accurate and normal.
- starts beautifully, every time.
-it runs better after new injectors, but the idle / low rev cold start problem still exists.

Nope it was a bag of the proverbial before. It had a cracked injector cup, and filled the engine with diesel. It never ran well before, felt like it had no turbo. Now runs like a dream when warm.

So the head was required.

Sorry, this is a confusing post, but so is the issue ( too me, and a workshop...)

Smoke does look blue / grey, which makes me wonder, like some of you, if it’s not oil getting in somewhere?!

If the injector seals are fitted poorl, would I not still be getting diesel in my oil?

Thanks for all the patience! I will resolve it and keep the thread updated!