Cold start, glow plugs and lost volts

Following on from this thread http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f7/slow-turn-over-when-cold-but-not-battery-123336.html

I'm still having cold starting problems but have come to the conclusion that it cranking as fast as any other car in -10 degrees. It's just not firing quick enough.

FACTS:

1984 "90" 2.5D N/A

Fitted in last month or so
New 900CCA battery
New 65a Alternator
New NGK Glowplugs
New Fuel Filter
Starter and solenoid stripped and cleaned
All battery, Starter, Solenoid, Earth and Glow Plug connections removed and cleaned


My car wouldn't start yesterday and only after much cranking did it start this morning (with battery on charge all night). As my analogue multimeter is too wishywashy I went out and bought a digital one today.

Here are my findings from this afternoon:

Voltage across battery at start of testing (Nothing turned on) = 12.91v
Voltage between +ve terminal and body of car = 12.91v
Voltage between +ve terminal and engine block = 12.91v

Voltage across battery with glowplugs on = 12.41v
Voltage at +ve terminal of starter/solenoid with glow plugs on = 11.8v
Voltage at every glow plug with glow plugs on = 11.3v

Is that normal? Or are the glow plugs not warming up enough due to the "lost" volts. If so, any ideas where I would lose them?

Also, when I got home (10 minute journey) I turned the car off and checked the battery again = 14.20v but dropping 0.01v every 30 seconds or so. Left it for an hour and half and re-checked it = 13.22v but not dropping any further.

Anyone any ideas? It's driving me crazy and I'm wasting so much time :blabla:

Daz

have you had the GPs out and SEEN them glow RED hot when they've had a high current 12v supply attached to them ?

Also i think this one has a cold start mechanism which resets if you touch the accelerator doesn't it? You need to make sure you don't touch the accelerator till it fires up. I remember my 19J being a pig to start in the cold though, i used to have to give 30 seconds glow, then wait 10, then another 30 seconds and then it would fire up OK.

The batt thing sounds normal, this is expected.

also, also - you need to SEE the GPs glowing while connected to the loom supply and NOT just via a set of wires from a battery - the plugs on yours are fed direct from the ignition switch, which isn't ideal for a high current supply - you might have better luck using the existing supply from the ignition switch to feed a proper high current rated relay, or better still fit one of the timer/relays as per the 200

Sean said:

have you had the GPs out and SEEN them glow RED hot when they've had a high current 12v supply attached to them ?

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I did this with the old (10 months old, but cheap) Glow Plugs and replaced a suspect one. However, last time I called out the RAC he said he still thought it was the glow plugs so I put a new set in.

Oddie said:

Also i think this one has a cold start mechanism which resets if you touch the accelerator doesn't it? You need to make sure you don't touch the accelerator till it fires up. I remember my 19J being a pig to start in the cold though, i used to have to give 30 seconds glow, then wait 10, then another 30 seconds and then it would fire up OK.


The batt thing sounds normal, this is expected.

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I used to hold the accelerator half way down (as shown by previous owner) but have kept my foot away since having this problem. I will try extra, extra glow in the morning.

Sean said:

also, also - you need to SEE the GPs glowing while connected to the loom supply and NOT just via a set of wires from a battery - the plugs on yours are fed direct from the ignition switch, which isn't ideal for a high current supply - you might have better luck using the existing supply from the ignition switch to feed a proper high current rated relay, or better still fit one of the timer/relays as per the 200

Click to expand...

I've just remembered that I first started having "Struggling to start in the cold" trouble last Feb after having the cambelt replaced. I put it down to the battery and replaced the Glow Plugs which helped and once the weather warmed up I had no trouble...until recently!

Daz

2.5 are indirect injection engines and require alot of pre heat or easy start or jump pack as well ,apart from extra drag with cold engine they never had a lot of compression when new let alone as they wear , engines dont get addicted to easy start but you can use wd40 or something similar,you will get a voltage drop if glow plug is working. i would be surprised if 2.5 diesel didnt need extra help in this extreme cold weather

jamesmartin said:

2.5 are indirect injection engines and require alot of pre heat or easy start or jump pack as well ,apart from extra drag with cold engine they never had a lot of compression when new let alone as they wear , engines dont get addicted to easy start but you can use wd40 or something similar,you will get a voltage drop if glow plug is working. i would be surprised if 2.5 diesel didnt need extra help in this extreme cold weather

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Bollox!
Indirect injection engines can be perfectly good starters if the injection system,compression, battery power and preheating are all working well.
My 2.5 has started first compression every morning in -6. Even my 30 year old Perkins engine tractor fires up unaided.
I would never use easy start or anything except in emergency,it will do damage,probably why your engine has low compression and wont start!

jamesmartin said:

engines dont get addicted to easy start

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am thinking this was a typo ?

how will it cause low compression, what damage do you thimk it will do if used properly. some engines will need extra help on really cold mornings some dont

in reply to sean is the spelling wrong

Read post 7 again :doh:

indirect can be good starters but a bloody lot arent

My 19J was a pig to start last year in the cold weather.
I changed the battery to a high CCA (biggest that would fit in the box ) & new plugs.
Not had any starting problems since.
Although it does NEED a good thirty seconds (& I don't mean counting quickly to 30) on the glow position before you crank. Once you crank she's away in less than 2 secs.
Good luck


ps In summer it needs 10 secs for first start, but then fires straight on the ket afterwards

Tivster said:

My 19J was a pig to start last year in the cold weather.
I changed the battery to a high CCA (biggest that would fit in the box ) & new plugs.
Not had any starting problems since.
Although it does NEED a good thirty seconds (& I don't mean counting quickly to 30) on the glow position before you crank. Once you crank she's away in less than 2 secs.
Good luck

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30 secs?? Somethings amiss there Mr.

storm99 said:

30 secs?? Somethings amiss there Mr.

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Whys that?

storm99 said:

30 secs?? Somethings amiss there Mr.

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My TD90 was same foot on clutch hold key in hotstart position count to 30 and then turn engine over. they can be right bastids to start

Still seems an awful long time even for a 19J. Did you buy quality plugs?

storm99 said:

Still seems an awful long time even for a 19J. Did you buy quality plugs?

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I always try to avoid sh1tparts - sorry Br1tparts where possible

tested the old ones after & they seemed to glow alright...
Turned out the old battery although only a year old was a leisure battery- nae gud fer cold cranking diesels...

Fergot to add- I wus told NOT to touch the accel pedal until she fired.
But my m8 sez he wus told to just give it a light touch.

Both techniques work for our engines. Mines a 1988 his izza 1990

Hmm..i would avoid touching the throttle..

storm99 said:

Hmm..i would avoid touching the throttle..

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Thanks Storm - At least I'm doing something right