Freelander 1 Yet another VCU thread

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The OWUT spins only 1 wheel. This doubles the number of turns of the diff reduction. So from memory the rear diff is 3.63 X 2 ÷ 7.26 turns of the propshaft for every single turn of the wheel. The bench test would need adjustment to compensate for this ratio different.
 
andyfreelandy said:
Previous post question got missed in the banter !
SO ...........
Did anyone compare the time for a 45 deg turn with VCU on the car to the time for a 45 degree with VCU off the car?

If rear axle ratio is about 3:1 then would it be about 1/3 of the time - or is it not that simple??
Just thought that if we knew the conversion factor for on or off the car we can test when refurbed before fitting !

Just bought a tight VCU to refurb and it times at 25 secs on the bench. would this have been about 75 secs on the car??
Click to expand...
Good question. I have a couple of old VCU's lying in the garage so will have to give them a test on the bench. At some stage I'll refurb one or both and test again.
I guess the only way to be 100% certain is to try it both on the car and on the bench and compare the findings.
 
Alibro said:
Good question. I have a couple of old VCU's lying in the garage so will have to give them a test on the bench. At some stage I'll refurb one or both and test again.
I guess the only way to be 100% certain is to try it both on the car and on the bench and compare the findings.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I'm guessing the bench times will be a lot less than the fitted times.
 
Taken my eye off this thread for a bit, but I've just ordered the kit from Bell this morning. It'll arrive some time next week, but I might not be able to fit it for a little while.
Every time I go round a corner now I'm thinking of the poor IRD grinding away :). I do have some time this weekend (before the VCU kit arrives) so I thought of maybe removing one of the propshafts. Two reasons - one to relieve any strain on the system (running temporarily in 2wd mode), and two to get a feel for how hard the whole job is likely to be and hence whether I want to take it on or take the car to a garage (LR specialist near me is always booked up forever, so it would be a general backstreet place I've used before).
Is this a daft idea? Can the shaft be removed just by undoing the bolts at the flange end and sliding the other out of the VCU?
Cheers,
Pete
 
Pete_TD4 said:
Taken my eye off this thread for a bit, but I've just ordered the kit from Bell this morning. It'll arrive some time next week, but I might not be able to fit it for a little while.
Every time I go round a corner now I'm thinking of the poor IRD grinding away :). I do have some time this weekend (before the VCU kit arrives) so I thought of maybe removing one of the propshafts. Two reasons - one to relieve any strain on the system (running temporarily in 2wd mode), and two to get a feel for how hard the whole job is likely to be and hence whether I want to take it on or take the car to a garage (LR specialist near me is always booked up forever, so it would be a general backstreet place I've used before).
Is this a daft idea? Can the shaft be removed just by undoing the bolts at the flange end and sliding the other out of the VCU?
Cheers,
Pete
Click to expand...
It is much easier to remove the whole thing as separating the propshafts from the VCU can be a right mare of a job. Removing the propshaft is simple enough to do but will probably take a couple of hours by the time you jack up the car and faff about. It's much easier if you jack up both rear wheels as then you can turn the rear diff for access to all the bolts. I normally use 1/4 hex sockets on the torx bolts as my torx socket set is 1/2" and they are too fat to reach. Up to now it's worked fine on four cars.
 
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Alibro said:
It is much easier to remove the whole thing as separating the propshafts from the VCU can be a right mare of a job. It's a simple enough to do but will probably take a couple of hours by the time you jack up the car and faff about. It's much easier if you jack up both rear wheels as then you can turn the rear diff for access to all the bolts. I normally use 1/4 hex sockets on the torx bolts as my torx socket set is 1/2" and they are too fat to reach. Up to now it's worked fine on four cars.
Click to expand...

Ok - so undo the flange bolts both ends, and the mounting bolts for the VCU bearings, and drop the whole lot off in one piece?

What's the best order to do it all in? I guess I could take out all but one of the flange bolts each end, and half of the VCU ones, before I need to worry what comes off first...

I have a trolley jack which can go under the cross-member at the back and lift the whole lot up, then put axle stands under the side rails or somewhere else handy. Will I end up needing to jack the front as well at any point, or just the arse end?

Thanks a lot for the help, this feels like a big job by my standards :)

Pete
 
Pete_TD4 said:
Ok - so undo the flange bolts both ends, and the mounting bolts for the VCU bearings, and drop the whole lot off in one piece?

What's the best order to do it all in? I guess I could take out all but one of the flange bolts each end, and half of the VCU ones, before I need to worry what comes off first...

I have a trolley jack which can go under the cross-member at the back and lift the whole lot up, then put axle stands under the side rails or somewhere else handy. Will I end up needing to jack the front as well at any point, or just the arse end?

Thanks a lot for the help, this feels like a big job by my standards :)

Pete
Click to expand...
It can all be done asre end up or front end up. It would be better if you had a second pair of hands as that lot is heavy. Best get yourself a set of long nose female torx sockets to make your life easier as you could round them using the other method (I did the first time I did mine) Take a look at this

 
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Madmustang said:
It can all be done asre end up or front end up. It would be better if you had a second pair of hands as that lot is heavy. Best get yourself a set of long nose female torx sockets to make your life easier as you could round them using the other method (I did the first time I did mine) Take a look at this

Click to expand...

So long as you use a spanner to loosen and tighten the nuts and only use the 1/4" socket to hold the bolt you will be fine. Disconnect the propshaft at both ends first then the VCU. As Madmustang says it is heavy but should be manageable.
 
andyfreelandy said:
Previous post question got missed in the banter !
SO ...........
Did anyone compare the time for a 45 deg turn with VCU on the car to the time for a 45 degree with VCU off the car?

If rear axle ratio is about 3:1 then would it be about 1/3 of the time - or is it not that simple??
Just thought that if we knew the conversion factor for on or off the car we can test when refurbed before fitting !

Just bought a tight VCU to refurb and it times at 25 secs on the bench. would this have been about 75 secs on the car??
Click to expand...
I have comparison figures for my new vcu. Mentioned in post 19. Will find them and put them up soon
 
Pete_TD4 said:
Ok - so undo the flange bolts both ends, and the mounting bolts for the VCU bearings, and drop the whole lot off in one piece?

What's the best order to do it all in? I guess I could take out all but one of the flange bolts each end, and half of the VCU ones, before I need to worry what comes off first...

I have a trolley jack which can go under the cross-member at the back and lift the whole lot up, then put axle stands under the side rails or somewhere else handy. Will I end up needing to jack the front as well at any point, or just the arse end?

Thanks a lot for the help, this feels like a big job by my standards :)

Pete
Click to expand...
Anyone who is fit enough to get under a car can remove the props - its not difficult.

I'm no ninja mechanic - just a normal sort of bloke who's very wary about getting the tools out to fix the car. But, after being shat on by 1 to many garages I took the decision to do all future work on my cars myself. Unfortunately the first thing that went wrong to test my resolve was the IRD being pummeled to bits. The first thing in the process of diagnosing/fixing this was to remove the props.

If you're like me, you will hate getting under a car that is on axle stands. I wouldn't do it in the UK, and I definitely won't do it here where an earthquake can occur at any time! I raised the car up by driving/jacking it on to paving slabs (possibly only on 1 side). If you have some HippoRamps all-the-better. This meant I could get under to remove the accessible bolts, then push the car forward a little to turn the prop shaft to get to the others.

As you say, losen both ends leaving 1 bolt in each. Then lower the ends. Be careful they are heavy and have a will of their own as to where they want to go. Don't lower them all the way down, rest them 1/2 way on something (wood?). Then losen the 4 bolts on the support bearings a bit, then get a trolley jack under the VCU and remove the 4 bolts. Lower the VCU on the trolly jack.

Its a bit scarey as the bits are heavy, and you're on your back which isn't fun - but you'll be fine. The first time I removed the props I used normal sockets, but its easier and you won't break the heads if you have a set of Torx sockets.

Reassembly, as they say, is the reverse :)

So far as splitting the props from the VCU. I've literally just done this for the first time within the last week or so. I used that 2nd video in MadMustang's post as a guide. It was easy as.

Hopefully you won't have to remove the support bearings from the VCU. If you do, and you don't have a hub puller, that's a 'hit it hard' job - then 'hit it even harder' - then 'hit it as hard as you can' job.

Good luck. Don't worry about it - you'll be fine (so long as you don't drop a prop, VCU or car on your head!).
 
GrumpyGel said:
If you're like me, you will hate getting under a car that is on axle stands. I wouldn't do it in the UK, and I definitely won't do it here where an earthquake can occur at any time! I raised the car up by driving/jacking it on to paving slabs (possibly only on 1 side). If you have some HippoRamps all-the-better. This meant I could get under to remove the accessible bolts, then push the car forward a little to turn the prop shaft to get to the others.
Click to expand...

That's an interesting idea. I don't love going under a car on stands (and I usually leave the jack in position and lightly loaded, as backup) but I put up with it. I do have some concrete blocks (breeze-block size, but solid) which I could maybe drive up onto - how far does the car need to roll to turn the shaft over?

GrumpyGel said:
The first time I removed the props I used normal sockets, but its easier and you won't break the heads if you have a set of Torx sockets.
Click to expand...

Don't suppose you happen to know what size? And someone else suggested deep ones - are these necessary or will normal length do? I'm not going to bodge it with ordinary hex sockets on something like this.

GrumpyGel said:
Hopefully you won't have to remove the support bearings from the VCU. If you do, and you don't have a hub puller, that's a 'hit it hard' job - then 'hit it even harder' - then 'hit it as hard as you can' job.
Click to expand...

I do have a small 2-legged puller I originally got for pulling the propeller off a boat. Might work. Or failing that, hitting things is something I can do :). But I'm using an exchange VCU from Bell's and have to send the old one back, so if I can't get the things off I suppose I'll just send the whole lot back :).

All the videos talk a lot about marking the parts to reassemble them correctly balanced. I can do that with the U-shaped washer, but of course the VCU will be new. I guess the rotational position of that relative to the shafts doesn't matter?

Thanks,

Pete
 
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Pete_TD4 said:
That's an interesting idea. I don't love going under a car on stands (and I usually leave the jack in position and lightly loaded, as backup) but I put up with it. I do have some concrete blocks (breeze-block size, but solid) which I could maybe drive up onto - how far does the car need to roll to turn the shaft over?



Don't suppose you happen to know what size? And someone else suggested deep ones - are these necessary or will normal length do? I'm not going to bodge it with ordinary hex sockets on something like this.



I do have a small 2-legged puller I originally got for pulling the propeller off a boat. Might work. Or failing that, hitting things is something I can do :). But I'm using an exchange VCU from Bell's and have to send the old one back, so if I can't get the things off I suppose I'll just send the whole lot back :).

All the videos talk a lot about marking the parts to reassemble them correctly balanced. I can do that with the U-shaped washer, but of course the VCU will be new. I guess the rotational position of that relative to the shafts doesn't matter?

Thanks,

Pete
Click to expand...
I favour large blocks of wood instead of axle stands. There's much less chance of the car tipping off blocks. I always leave the trolley jack under there too.

The VCU bearings can be removed with a puller like this.
20131122_114012.jpg
 
By the way, I assume there's no problem with driving the car around for a couple of weeks with the propshafts missing? I think I've heard of people doing this long-term rather than replacing the VCU...

Pete
 
Pete_TD4 said:
That's an interesting idea. I don't love going under a car on stands (and I usually leave the jack in position and lightly loaded, as backup) but I put up with it. I do have some concrete blocks (breeze-block size, but solid) which I could maybe drive up onto - how far does the car need to roll to turn the shaft over?



Don't suppose you happen to know what size? And someone else suggested deep ones - are these necessary or will normal length do? I'm not going to bodge it with ordinary hex sockets on something like this.



I do have a small 2-legged puller I originally got for pulling the propeller off a boat. Might work. Or failing that, hitting things is something I can do :). But I'm using an exchange VCU from Bell's and have to send the old one back, so if I can't get the things off I suppose I'll just send the whole lot back :).

All the videos talk a lot about marking the parts to reassemble them correctly balanced. I can do that with the U-shaped washer, but of course the VCU will be new. I guess the rotational position of that relative to the shafts doesn't matter?

Thanks,

Pete
Click to expand...


From memory E10 and E12 Torx I bought something like these

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CLARKE-PR...hash=item5648cdefbd:m:mm45WbwrM-ULqviw6Xte-OQ

As the short fat ones don’t go on properly and I shagged a couple up even holding them and undoing the other side with a socket/spanner as they were on to tight.


Two legged puller will be fine the bearings are not on that tight. So you don’t have to use a sledge hammer to put them back on. A little unloosen oil will help too.


You do not need to mark the position of the props as when the VCU turns it will be out of line anyway and each half is balanced in its own right. But it made me feel better so I did :) I marked the grooved end pieces as I was changing the UJs as well. Also try not to damage the lock washer or you will need to buy a new one.


The U piece has a little bead on one side so that fits into a little depression on the flange (From Memory) remember this for when you put it back together, so don’t rush and have to undo it all again because you remembered when you buttoned it all up like I did.


And yes I could not get one prop off as it was proper stuck. I removed it via the UJ and sent it all to Bells with the end piece still attached. He got it off and sent it back with the VCU although he did think I was sending it with the pro attached and refunded me the extra postage when he realised what I had done. He is a Good ol' boy ;-)
 
Forgot to mention, I some time's put the car on railway sleepers or paving stones if I don’t need to take the wheels off.
The little jack and stands you used to have to jack up a fiesta look terrifying under a big jeep and don’t instil any confidence at all. I hated using them knowing my life was at risk.

I went to Silverstone last year and saw that the racers all had their cars all wheels off the floor on these big and sturdy red and white jack stands. I asked one of them what the hell are those and he told me they get them from Machine mart for about £30 a set which are rated and 3 tons a pair.
I bought two sets and when I was doing work on my Freelander I had it on those for a month without issue. It makes it a hell of a lot easier to slide about under their without fear :)
I also bought their mechanic’s jack and I swear by them. I am not buying cheap tools anymore as it’s a false economy and I am never buying Aldi’s cheap tat as it’s a waste of money. Machine Mart is my friend now.

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/cax-3tbc-3-ton-axle-stands/

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/c/trolley-jacks-bottle-jacks-transmission-jacks/
 
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