Yes I'm sad...

Just watched an old Top Gear clip with the P38 against its rivals.

Sadly the P38 registration details are not known to the DVLA - so the plate has been changed or it was on false plates for the clip. Even if a car has been scrapped it should still show on the vehicle enquiry.

The majority of the other cars are still going strong. I wonder how many typical 1997 family saloons are still going?

r679bdu Range Rover. 4.6 no record
r724tud Nissan patrol. Tax expires 1/11/2012
r910eoo Ford Explorer. Tax expires 1/11/2012
r461bol Isuzu Trooper Tax expires 1/1/2013
r899fkn Jeep Cherokee Tax expired 25/07/2012
r910ffg Toyota Landcruiser Tax expires 1/05/2013

Original vid: Old Top Gear 4X4's - YouTube

equally as sad...but i suspect its a fake plate or demo model The 679 are not standard uk font.

Loads of cars over 20 years old still on the road over here much to the disgust of the politicians who think we should all buy new to save jobs at Peugeot.

Datatek said:

Loads of cars over 20 years old still on the road over here much to the disgust of the politicians who think we should all buy new to save jobs at Peugeot.

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I'm not saying that there aren't, I'm pointing out that out of the five traceable large 4x4s in that test, four of them are still in use, the fifth's tax has only just expired. If you took a random sample of 5 family cars from the same era - I'd be surprised if more than two are still on the road. Big 4x4s are built to last - and don't tend to be driven by idiots who write car off for fun!

Take the Coupe test from the same year: Old Top Gear Coupé's - YouTube

R433FAN BMW 328 coupe expires 01/10/2012
R486WLL Honda Prelude expires 01/05/2012
R236YBW Volvo C70 dead 08/05/2004
R490BHP Peugeot 406 coupe na
R644MCF Fiat Coupe dead 28/08/2008
R610MCF Alfa GTV6 na
P618TBD Merc CLK na
R937FFG Toyota Celica dead 01/08/2006

Of the five traceable cars only two are still in use.



The classic Capri used in the opening is still on the road
TDH224M Ford Capri expires 01/02/2013

StuckAgainSteve said:

Take the Coupe test from the same year: Old Top Gear Coupé's - YouTube

R433FAN BMW 328 coupe expires 01/10/2012
R486WLL Honda Prelude expires 01/05/2012
R236YBW Volvo C70 dead 08/05/2004
R490BHP Peugeot 406 coupe na
R644MCF Fiat Coupe dead 28/08/2008
R610MCF Alfa GTV6 na
P618TBD Merc CLK na
R937FFG Toyota Celica dead 01/08/2006

Of the five traceable cars only two are still in use.

The classic Capri used in the opening is still on the road
TDH224M Ford Capri expires 01/02/2013

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My 86 MR2 is still on the road, wife's 88 Renault 11 with spaceship kilometres is also still on the road.

My 72 Imp is still on the road - my point is I think large 4x4s last longer than the "greener" everyday cars because they are tougher to begin with and the owners are more sensible!

StuckAgainSteve said:

My 72 Imp is still on the road - my point is I think large 4x4s last longer than the "greener" everyday cars because they are tougher to begin with and the owners are more sensible!

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Yet owners on here talk about a P38 being "old" at 10 years. My last Volvo had 300K on it and was over 10 years old but was trouble free. In my experience, 4 x 4's of all brands are more troublesome than normal cars even when just used on road.

They are more troublesome because they are more complicated - but they still seem to last longer. The empirical evidence above from searching on 1997/98 Top Gear group-test shows a remarkable bias towards 4x4s outlasting other cars. Unlike a lot of 4x4s, the Top Gear ones did get used off road. Late 0s cars are probably the most reliable car will ever get, most cars were not too packed with computers, the fuel and emissions systems were still fairly basic and most manufacturers started galvanising panels.

I wouldn't count on modern Volvos lasting like the old 'uns. When Volvo and SAAB were Volvo and SAAB, they used to design their cars with a target service life of 18 years in mind. Modern cars are designed to last the warranty period. The stretched service intervals are there to reduce the perceived cost of running a car to the lease companies - fug long-term reliability. Emissions regs have also meant that most FI systems today are extremely expensive high-precision items - there won't be cheap knock-off copies of today's FI pumps and injectors - rendering old cars uneconomical to repair when they go wrong. Making something within a couple of microns tolerance will never be cheap!

StuckAgainSteve said:

They are more troublesome because they are more complicated - but they still seem to last longer. The empirical evidence above from searching on 1997/98 Top Gear group-test shows a remarkable bias towards 4x4s outlasting other cars. Unlike a lot of 4x4s, the Top Gear ones did get used off road. Late 0s cars are probably the most reliable car will ever get, most cars were not too packed with computers, the fuel and emissions systems were still fairly basic and most manufacturers started galvanising panels.

I wouldn't count on modern Volvos lasting like the old 'uns. When Volvo and SAAB were Volvo and SAAB, they used to design their cars with a target service life of 18 years in mind. Modern cars are designed to last the warranty period. The stretched service intervals are there to reduce the perceived cost of running a car to the lease companies - fug long-term reliability. Emissions regs have also meant that most FI systems today are extremely expensive high-precision items - there won't be cheap knock-off copies of today's FI pumps and injectors - rendering old cars uneconomical to repair when they go wrong. Making something within a couple of microns tolerance will never be cheap!

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Sad isn't it. Think of the cost in energy and materials in making a car. A car should be capable of lasting 15/20 years. If engine technology moves on, fit a new engine. Greener than scrapping the car, again with the energy costs of recycling. It's a mad world en-route to self destruction.

Datatek said:

Sad isn't it. Think of the cost in energy and materials in making a car. A car should be capable of lasting 15/20 years. If engine technology moves on, fit a new engine. Greener than scrapping the car, again with the energy costs of recycling. It's a mad world en-route to self destruction.

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Absolutely it's forced commercialism. Forcing perfectly serviceable old cars off the road on spurious plant-food emissions grounds is so daft it doesn't bare thinking about! The lost gross domestic product due to reduced new car sales would soon be made up maintaining older ones correctly. The money would simply be redistributed more evenly (and locally) rather than into the pockets of the few large motor manufacturers.

Datatek said:

Loads of cars over 20 years old still on the road over here much to the disgust of the politicians who think we should all buy new to save jobs at Peugeot.

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What's the score with 2CVs. Are they plentiful and cheap or collectors' specials like they are here?

G~

gencybay said:

What's the score with 2CVs. Are they plentiful and cheap or collectors' specials like they are here?

G~

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Quite a few about including some where all the paint has disappeared leaving a nice all over rust colour Secondhand cars are very expensive in France and there a clubs for 2CV's, Renault 4's etc. A pristine 2CV fetches big money.