P38A Won't turn over on the key

52 classic · Jul 25, 2020

Just when you think it is OK to compliment your RR on reliability..........

Shopping run - Morrison's car park - key puts Ign on OK but the start turn just interrupts radio and some dash lights. Engine doesn't turn over.
Cheated to get home by 'flashing' a screwdriver from the main feed to the starter motor onto the control terminal. Instant start, drives without irregularities.

Diagnostic mode today. Firstly the relays. No15 has a key symbol - Is that the right one? It clicks for IGN on and when the key turned to start position but still no turn over. Meter shows no power to the control wire on the solenoid. Swapped for relay 11 (lamp wash wipe) still the same.

Essential journey on Monday so I'll 'flash' it as my get home trick, but it needs sorting ASAP. Ideas and advice welcome.

kermit_rr · Jul 25, 2020

Petrol or diesel? Any dash lights start on that shouldn't stay on? Any message on the dash?
What did diagnostics say?

marjon · Jul 25, 2020

Have a look at this while we wait for more model/car details. Not sure if they are the same petrol/diesel.
There is a starter relay #16.

https://fusesdiagram.com/range-rover/fuses-and-relay-range-rover-1994-2001.html

Good luck.

J

52 classic · Jul 25, 2020

Thanks Kermit, Car is diesel Auto. No errant lights or messages. Daignostics? I'm old school on this, just a volt meter and experience! Not sure I could read a diag tool anyway. One thought I had was that the transmission inhibitor is faulty however, there's no difference in P or N. Is the inhibitor up stream or downstream of the relay? If I could be certain that relay 15 is the one and only for the circuit then I'd do some more tracing in and out of it.

52 classic · Jul 25, 2020

MARJON Symbols on the fuse box lid show RL-15 is a key. RL-16 is SM so not sure what that is. Reading your reply I swapped 7 & 16 but no effect. 16 (&7) are yellow. 15 is green.

Thanks for your help.

52 classic · Jul 25, 2020

Just followed your link. Now I can see that 15 & 16 are in the circuit. SM?????? STARTER MOTOR! Dohh! I'll have a fresh go this afternoon. Thanks again.

marjon · Jul 25, 2020

I would guess SM = starter motor

Sounds like starter solenoid then, or wiring between. Do you have volts at the relay if it Starts on the magic screwdriver it’s something in between.

J

Wazzajnr · Jul 25, 2020

You can download rave with all the elec diagrams from the tech archive at the top of the page then at least you can see what you are tracing.

52 classic · Jul 25, 2020

Rain is stopping play here at Cardiff. But not before some progress has been made thanks to LZ.... With relay 16 removed I have established that a shunt from battery to terminal 30 of the relay will operate starter - so the wiring at the starter/solenoid is proven. I would have expected IGN controlled power at terminal 87 also power at either 85 or 86 when the start position of the key is activated.
So I'll spend the evening reading RAVE to establish how the power should be getting to 87. If I could solve that, I would expect that a bridge 87 - 30 would operate starter. Then I need to see what happens up and down stream from 85/86.
Do I recall a couple of chunky line fuses under the ECU chest? Could it be one of those at fault?

marjon · Jul 25, 2020

Good progress

narrowed it done a bIt.
Fixed tomorrow after some bedtime reading.

J

52 classic · Jul 25, 2020

First bit of reading, in marjon's link, suggests that Maxi Fuse 2 feeds EAS and starter relay..... Good news then! Except that my fuse box has NO fuse in position 2! Search facility says this has been discussed before but other than advice NOT to insert a fuse if there isn't, one the results are inconclusive. The car has certainly been operating perfectly up to yesterday, with no fuse in position 2. Come to think of it, air is full so EAS wouldn't need to operate at present. Can anyone guide me to the location of 30A MF 2? I think we're onto something!

marjon · Jul 25, 2020

Are you sure you are looking
A) at the right fuse box.
B) the difference between a fuse and a Maxi fuse.

Some pics of mine. (It’s petrolhead though)
Maxi fuses are big boys on the right of first pic.
Fuse #2 is under driver seat, mine is empty too.

so basically don’t worry about what’s missing if the car was running. Concentrate on what’s there and test each side of each.

J

52 classic · Jul 25, 2020

Wow, the under seat fuse box door is helpful. I am starting with your original link in which I read the 'legend' as - 30A Maxi fuse EAS and Starter relay. It describes 5 Maxi Fuses and this is no2 but on my fuse box the place shown as MF2 is empty. On your fuse box pic it is the red one - Yours is 50A Now, if I could find the location of that 30A fuse! Maybe start under seat in the morning!

RangeRoller dt · Jul 25, 2020

30 amp in standard diesel
Labelled on lid as EAS/SM.

I have the EAS relay missing for obvious reasons....but the maxi fuse is still there so is needed.

52 classic · Jul 26, 2020

Another victory for LZ team-work! Thanks for the picture RRdt The Maxi fuse you arrowed is not present on my car. However, F40 - a blade fuse in the right hand row, is rated 40amps, Noted on the lid as EAS SM........
AND it had blown. LR are kind enough to give you a spare in the box so fuse replaced, all is restored, at least for now.
But why did it blow? I replaced the compressor at the start of lockdown so the replacement could be faulty. However, air is full at present, there are no leaks, so I think that issue is for another day.

Big thanks to all who replied. A Range Rover was always on my 'one day' list but I could not have entertained running one without the LZ back up crew.

marjon · Jul 26, 2020

Great you managed to track it down

time to buy some spare fuses now then.

I have been comparing RRdts fuse box lid and mine and they are different mine is 2001 petrol. Must take a look at the 96 petrol to compare.
I have also seen ref to maxi #2 being a spare

.
If everything works without it then don’t worry.

J

Datatek · Jul 26, 2020

52 classic said:
Another victory for LZ team-work! Thanks for the picture RRdt The Maxi fuse you arrowed is not present on my car. However, F40 - a blade fuse in the right hand row, is rated 40amps, Noted on the lid as EAS SM........
AND it had blown. LR are kind enough to give you a spare in the box so fuse replaced, all is restored, at least for now.
But why did it blow? I replaced the compressor at the start of lockdown so the replacement could be faulty. However, air is full at present, there are no leaks, so I think that issue is for another day.

Big thanks to all who replied. A Range Rover was always on my 'one day' list but I could not have entertained running one without the LZ back up crew.

Fuses can just fail with age especially when feeding load like the EAS compressor.

Grrrrrr · Jul 26, 2020

52 classic said:
Another victory for LZ team-work! Thanks for the picture RRdt The Maxi fuse you arrowed is not present on my car. However, F40 - a blade fuse in the right hand row, is rated 40amps, Noted on the lid as EAS SM........
AND it had blown. LR are kind enough to give you a spare in the box so fuse replaced, all is restored, at least for now.
But why did it blow? I replaced the compressor at the start of lockdown so the replacement could be faulty. However, air is full at present, there are no leaks, so I think that issue is for another day.

Big thanks to all who replied. A Range Rover was always on my 'one day' list but I could not have entertained running one without the LZ back up crew.

Bit late to this but you are right, the big maxi fuse in the under-bonnet fuse-box does both the EAS compressor and starter motor. It is usually the EAS compressor that causes it to blow. It may work erratically with a sticky point rather than smooth rotation all the way round. If it has gone then it is usually because it is feeding a leak. If the car stays up with the delay timer removed then I would T a guage in on the storage side and check no air is lost overnight. If it is then probably pin-hole where pipe goes over exhaust due to exhaust blow. Failing that check air-dryer isn't leaking and failing that the valve block.

marjon · Jul 26, 2020

Grrrrrr said:
the big maxi fuse in the under-bonnet fuse-box does both the EAS compressor and starter motor

And that seems to be the confusing bit as OP says his maxi fuse #2 is not there, but everything works

J

Grrrrrr · Jul 26, 2020

marjon said:
And that seems to be the confusing bit as OP says his maxi fuse #2 is not there, but everything works

J

Cannot remember what number it is but I now carry spares. If it were me I'd have the starter on its own circuit. I cannot believe they have a critical component on shared fuse with something as temperamental as the EAS.

P38A Won't turn over on the key

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