wiring loom.....strange request

R

rav_k

Guest

• Sep 7, 2004

• #1

Hi all,

this is a bit of a strange request...so, please bear with me....

I want to change the wiring loom on my SWB 2a. the original is tatty
with a loads of extra wires for lights, etc that have been added and
removed over the years...

The request is for a wiring loom from a swb 2a petrol. I would like
to copy it and use it get all the cables to the same lentgh, same
colour...

I'd rather not take the original out as i'm a little apprehensive to
just rip it out and leve the landy with nothing. i would like to have
one already out to copy.


thanks

Rav

p.s. Pics soon to be on the net...

 

T

Tim Hobbs

Guest

• Sep 7, 2004

• #2

On 7 Sep 2004 04:41:25 -0700, [email protected] (rav_k) wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>this is a bit of a strange request...so, please bear with me....
>
>I want to change the wiring loom on my SWB 2a. the original is tatty
>with a loads of extra wires for lights, etc that have been added and
>removed over the years...
>
>The request is for a wiring loom from a swb 2a petrol. I would like
>to copy it and use it get all the cables to the same lentgh, same
>colour...
>
>I'd rather not take the original out as i'm a little apprehensive to
>just rip it out and leve the landy with nothing. i would like to have
>one already out to copy.
>
>
>thanks
>
>Rav
>
>p.s. Pics soon to be on the net...

Have you considered http://www.autosparks.co.uk/harness.html

Not sure what the prices are, but it's something I am going to have to
consider in due course...


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com

 

J

Jack Kerouac

Guest

• Sep 7, 2004

• #3

"rav_k" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all,
>
> this is a bit of a strange request...so, please bear with me....
>
> I want to change the wiring loom on my SWB 2a. the original is tatty
> with a loads of extra wires for lights, etc that have been added and
> removed over the years...
>
> The request is for a wiring loom from a swb 2a petrol. I would like
> to copy it and use it get all the cables to the same lentgh, same
> colour...
>
> I'd rather not take the original out as i'm a little apprehensive to
> just rip it out and leve the landy with nothing. i would like to have
> one already out to copy.
>
>
> thanks
>
> Rav
>
> p.s. Pics soon to be on the net...

In the States the company we use most often is:

http://www.painlessperformance.com/

Why not just wire it yourself. You know what you need and what's not needed.
Why use the SWB 2a? The wires do not need to be the same color as long as
you document where they connect. Remember to wire in a good fuse box with
relays for all the big appliances.

Good Luck.

 

R

rav_k

Guest

• Sep 7, 2004

• #4

Thanks Both,

I had a look at Autosparks, but at £120.21 plus. I thought that a little on
the expensive side for a bunch of cables and a few connectors...

I want to wire it myself, but would like to copy the original loom in terms
of how long each wire needs to be, etc...outside of the vehicle prior to
taking out the original. I don't want to take out the existing one and then
start from scratch, as i feel that would be a little more than i could
handle... this way i can complete the loom outside of the landy and then
route and replace the orignal bit by bit....

If i had a loom from the same type of vehicle then i could unwrap it onto
the floor and copy it, to create another, e.g. the red wire needs to be 13
inches long and starts from the back of the instrument panel and ends at the
left hand side indicator..etc

does this make sense or am i just waffling?




"Jack Kerouac" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:S4j%c.14332$Cr5.7747@trndny08...
>
> "rav_k" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > this is a bit of a strange request...so, please bear with me....
> >
> > I want to change the wiring loom on my SWB 2a. the original is tatty
> > with a loads of extra wires for lights, etc that have been added and
> > removed over the years...
> >
> > The request is for a wiring loom from a swb 2a petrol. I would like
> > to copy it and use it get all the cables to the same lentgh, same
> > colour...
> >
> > I'd rather not take the original out as i'm a little apprehensive to
> > just rip it out and leve the landy with nothing. i would like to have
> > one already out to copy.
> >
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > Rav
> >
> > p.s. Pics soon to be on the net...
>
> In the States the company we use most often is:
>
> http://www.painlessperformance.com/
>
> Why not just wire it yourself. You know what you need and what's not
needed.
> Why use the SWB 2a? The wires do not need to be the same color as long as
> you document where they connect. Remember to wire in a good fuse box with
> relays for all the big appliances.
>
> Good Luck.
>
>

 

S

Simon Isaacs

Guest

• Sep 7, 2004

• #5

"rav_k" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thanks Both,
>
> I had a look at Autosparks, but at £120.21 plus. I thought that a little
on
> the expensive side for a bunch of cables and a few connectors...
>
> I want to wire it myself, but would like to copy the original loom in
terms
> of how long each wire needs to be, etc...outside of the vehicle prior to
> taking out the original. I don't want to take out the existing one and
then
> start from scratch, as i feel that would be a little more than i could
> handle... this way i can complete the loom outside of the landy and then
> route and replace the orignal bit by bit....
>
> If i had a loom from the same type of vehicle then i could unwrap it onto
> the floor and copy it, to create another, e.g. the red wire needs to be
13
> inches long and starts from the back of the instrument panel and ends at
the
> left hand side indicator..etc
>
> does this make sense or am i just waffling?
>
>
>

By the time you've bought all the cables, connectors, loom wrap, fuse box
etc and made it, you will be surprised what good value the autosparks looms
are, as this was something we considered when rebuilding the Lightweight. I
think when we priced it all out, we would have saved about £30, but still
had the sodding thing to make!

Other thing to remember is that if the loom doesn't work, you do have
someone to go back to if it is a professionally built loom...

--
Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Vice Chairman, Newsletter Editor and Webmaster (how
much more....)
3.5V8 100" Hybrid, now LPG converted
Part owner of 1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, waiting on the appointment with
the nice man at the MOT station!
Suzuki SJ410 (Fiancée's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and
mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery (the Pug 106 is dead, long live the Pug)

Peterborough 4x4 Club http://www.peterborough4x4.co.uk

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Sep 7, 2004

• #6

On or around Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:36:43 +0100, "rav_k" <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>I had a look at Autosparks, but at £120.21 plus. I thought that a little on
>the expensive side for a bunch of cables and a few connectors...

I bet you can't make it for less than about 80% of that (and that doesn't
count your labour). There are a *lot* of connectors, lots of different
wire, both in thickness and colour, a load of cunning self-amalgamting tape
to wrap it in, plus heat-shrink for the places where the tape ends.

and it's much more complicated than it looks,m even for a series IIa

 

A

Alex

Guest

• Sep 7, 2004

• #7

On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:36:43 +0100, "rav_k" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Thanks Both,
>
>I had a look at Autosparks, but at £120.21 plus. I thought that a little on
>the expensive side for a bunch of cables and a few connectors...
>

You'd be surprised. After you've bought the wire and all the
connectors it won't be far short of that anyway. I have just totally
rewired a IIa myself, and I spend something in the region of £50 on
connectors alone.

My wiring loom is a complete custom job anyway, I redesigned the
wiring on the car with several improvements, and built the wiring loom
to suit. Although there's nothing extra on the car, I find that the
original wiring specification is woefully inadequate. I find
Landrover's idea of fusing a complete joke. If you're going to build a
wiring loom yourself, you may as well use the opportunity to improve
it at the same time, and fit some more fuses, in more sensible places.

For example: Did you know that if you short a headlamp out on a IIa it
burns the wiring loom out?

Alex

 

W

William MacLeod

Guest

• Sep 8, 2004

• #8

rav_k wrote:

> I had a look at Autosparks, but at £120.21 plus. I thought that a little
> on the expensive side for a bunch of cables and a few connectors...

Wouldn't go near Autosparks myself, was interested in a wiring loom for a
110 - they were quite happy to sell me one for hundreds of pounds, but did
not mention that it wasn't even a complete loom - the part that runs
through the chassis to the back lights and everything at the back is
seperate. And they didn't even sell the rear part - LR genuine parts only.
Vastly overrated in my very brief telephone encounter with them. Though
they should be able to cope with producing a series loom.

> If i had a loom from the same type of vehicle then i could unwrap it onto
> the floor and copy it, to create another, e.g. the red wire needs to be
> 13 inches long and starts from the back of the instrument panel and ends
> at the left hand side indicator..etc
>
> does this make sense or am i just waffling?

I'm not sure that this is going to be significantly easier than ripping it
all out and starting again from scratch - sorry! Series wiring isn't that
difficult and you should be looking to improve significantly on what's
there to be honest, not copying it. Start from scratch, use fuses and
relays and make sure you use decent sized cable. I personally put in an
extra earth at each corner of the vehicle (to the chassis), and chop off
most of the connectors I can at each corner as well and solder/heatshrink
sleeve the joints. Much nicer than re-using rusty connectors which are the
cause of many problems IME. Cheaper as well

Regards

William MacLeod

 

B

Badger

Guest

• Sep 8, 2004

• #9

"William MacLeod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:7qI%[email protected]...
> rav_k wrote:
>
> > I had a look at Autosparks, but at £120.21 plus. I thought that a little
> > on the expensive side for a bunch of cables and a few connectors...
>
> Wouldn't go near Autosparks myself, was interested in a wiring loom for a
> 110 - they were quite happy to sell me one for hundreds of pounds, but did
> not mention that it wasn't even a complete loom - the part that runs
> through the chassis to the back lights and everything at the back is
> seperate. And they didn't even sell the rear part - LR genuine parts
only.
> Vastly overrated in my very brief telephone encounter with them. Though
> they should be able to cope with producing a series loom.

Dealt with them quite a few times now Willie, always been ok with me. They
are right re. the 110 loom though, the "main loom" is only the bit at the
bulkhead and down the front wings, the "rear loom" is a separate loom going
from the main loom at the connectors under the bonnet, via the chassis r/h
rail to the rear. They have always been quoted and sold separately.
If you need a rear 110 loom, gimme a shout, I think I have a spare brand-new
genuine. (Going away late Fri. for 3 weeks)
>
> > If i had a loom from the same type of vehicle then i could unwrap it
onto
> > the floor and copy it, to create another, e.g. the red wire needs to be
> > 13 inches long and starts from the back of the instrument panel and ends
> > at the left hand side indicator..etc
> >
> > does this make sense or am i just waffling?

In theory it is sense, in practice it is almost impractical. Best to
redesign and modernise at the same time, IMO.
Sit down with a wiring diagram and redesign it, adding new fuses and relays,
leaving extra cables for future add-on's. Draw your new wiring diagram, add
a colour key and heatseal/laminate it immediately! Then work out lengths,
order all parts and go mad in the process of making it!

--
Badger.
B.H.Engineering,
Rover V8 engine specialists.

now live but still under construction,
www.bhengineering.co.uk
www.roverv8engines.com
www.roverv8engines.co.uk

 

R

rav_k

Guest

• Sep 8, 2004

• #10

<snip>
>
> For example: Did you know that if you short a headlamp out on a IIa it
> burns the wiring loom out?
>
> Alex




this is scary!!!!

ok, home made loom to original spec is out!!
but isn't a pre-fabricted one from autosparks going to be the same or do
they improve it and add extra fuses?

OR

do as Alex says, make my own and add extra "safety" features.... does
anybody have a modifed wiring diagram with the extra fuses, etc... they
would be willing to share?

btw thanks for all the advice so far.... more questions to come soon ;-)

 

R

rav_k

Guest

• Sep 8, 2004

• #11

go mad in the process of making it!
>

<snip>

i'm going mad trying to get all the things done on it...

this project started as "just a few things to do to get it through the mot &
on the road","just a couple of hours work"

Currently its..

- completely stripped body (bulkhead left in situ)
- both front doors being stripped & repaired..
- more than just one little hole that needed welding..
about the only thing that isn't getting touched is the engine, but sods law
now i've said it, that'll pack up on me tooo

isn't it great owning a land rover ;-)

rav

 

G

GbH

Guest

• Sep 8, 2004

• #12

In news:7qI%[email protected],
William MacLeod <[email protected]> blithered:
> rav_k wrote:
>
>> I had a look at Autosparks, but at £120.21 plus. I thought that a
>> little on the expensive side for a bunch of cables and a few
>> connectors...
>
> Wouldn't go near Autosparks myself, was interested in a wiring loom
> for a 110 - they were quite happy to sell me one for hundreds of
> pounds, but did not mention that it wasn't even a complete loom - the
> part that runs through the chassis to the back lights and everything
> at the back is seperate. And they didn't even sell the rear part -
> LR genuine parts only. Vastly overrated in my very brief telephone
> encounter with them. Though they should be able to cope with
> producing a series loom.
>
>> If i had a loom from the same type of vehicle then i could unwrap it
>> onto the floor and copy it, to create another, e.g. the red wire
>> needs to be 13 inches long and starts from the back of the
>> instrument panel and ends at the left hand side indicator..etc
>>
>> does this make sense or am i just waffling?
>
> I'm not sure that this is going to be significantly easier than
> ripping it all out and starting again from scratch - sorry! Series
> wiring isn't that difficult and you should be looking to improve
> significantly on what's there to be honest, not copying it. Start
> from scratch, use fuses and relays and make sure you use decent sized
> cable. I personally put in an extra earth at each corner of the
> vehicle (to the chassis), and chop off most of the connectors I can
> at each corner as well and solder/heatshrink sleeve the joints. Much
> nicer than re-using rusty connectors which are the cause of many
> problems IME. Cheaper as well
>
> Regards
>
> William MacLeod


My attempts at such rewiring have ben less than satisfactory, mainly in the
soldering of connectors. I used standard 60/40 electronics muticore solder. My
experience suggests the flux is not up to vehicle type environments. the
connectors fell off after a year or two. actually the end of the wire corroded
away after a year or two. I would recommend using crimp connectors, mostly these
come with sleeving anyway.

--
UR SHGb02+14 &ICMFP
If at first you don't succeed,
maybe skydiving's not a good idea!

 

E

EMB

Guest

• Sep 8, 2004

• #13

GbH wrote:

> My attempts at such rewiring have ben less than satisfactory, mainly in the
> soldering of connectors. I used standard 60/40 electronics muticore solder. My
> experience suggests the flux is not up to vehicle type environments. the
> connectors fell off after a year or two. actually the end of the wire corroded
> away after a year or two.

Not enough cleanliness or heat by the sound of it - soldered joins are
the ultimate and should outlast the vehicle. Make sure you heatshrink
the join though.

> I would recommend using crimp connectors, mostly these come with sleeving
> anyway.

Go and wash your mouth out - crimp connectors are an invention worthy of
Joe Lucas. They are only available in 2 types - bad ones and worse
ones. They're not bad if you crimp & solder them, but that sort of
defeats the purpose.

--
EMB
change two to number to reply

 

S

Steve Taylor

Guest

• Sep 8, 2004

• #14

rav_k wrote:
> go mad in the process of making it!
>
>
> <snip>
>
> i'm going mad trying to get all the things done on it...
>
> this project started as "just a few things to do to get it through the mot &
> on the road","just a couple of hours work"
>
> Currently its..

Removing 25 years of army paint
Rewiring completely and removing the slagged remains of the old loom.
Stripping the interior and refit as camper.
Build pop-top roof
Change the engine to a 200Tdi....
And thats just on one of them.

Then theres:
Rebuild LPG injector plates.
Renew rear chassis member
Fit winch..
Strip and repaint..
on the other one.

Welcome to the club.

Steve

 

W

William MacLeod

Guest

• Sep 8, 2004

• #15

Badger wrote:

> Dealt with them quite a few times now Willie, always been ok with me

I probably got the YT boy then!

> . They
> are right re. the 110 loom though, the "main loom" is only the bit at the
> bulkhead and down the front wings, the "rear loom" is a separate loom
> going from the main loom at the connectors under the bonnet, via the
> chassis r/h rail to the rear. They have always been quoted and sold
> separately. If you need a rear 110 loom, gimme a shout, I think I have a
> spare brand-new genuine. (Going away late Fri. for 3 weeks)

Thanks for the offer badger. I already got one though, Paddocks I think
supplied it in the end, though fitting it was interesting - hours of fun
getting it through the chassis!

Just finished rebuilding the 110 TD CSW, waiting to get it's MOT

Regards

Willie

 

A

Alex

Guest

• Sep 8, 2004

• #16

>>
>> For example: Did you know that if you short a headlamp out on a IIa it
>> burns the wiring loom out?
>>
>> Alex

>this is scary!!!!
>

Well, have a look at the S2 wiring diagram. There's only one fuse in
it, and it doesn't do a lot. It's also rated at 30 amps, and most of
the wiring after the fuse isn't gonna take that kind of load for very
long.

Oh, and you know those two test sockets on the dash? They're unfused
as well, don't go poking things in them.

>ok, home made loom to original spec is out!!
>but isn't a pre-fabricted one from autosparks going to be the same or do
>they improve it and add extra fuses?

I dunno, you could ask them I suppose.

>
>OR
>
>do as Alex says, make my own and add extra "safety" features.... does
>anybody have a modifed wiring diagram with the extra fuses, etc... they
>would be willing to share?
>
>btw thanks for all the advice so far.... more questions to come soon ;-)
>

I could send you the wiring diagram I used for mine, but i'm afraid
you'll have to wait untill I get around to updating the original on
the computer. The current one I have is rather a messy scribble on an
older diagram, I've been modifying things as I go along, as usual.

Alex

 

S

Steve Taylor

Guest

• Sep 9, 2004

• #17

EMB wrote:

> Go and wash your mouth out - crimp connectors are an invention worthy of
> Joe Lucas. They are only available in 2 types - bad ones and worse
> ones. They're not bad if you crimp & solder them, but that sort of
> defeats the purpose.

Proper crimps, and I don't count Lucar bullets as one of them, are
usually better than a soldered joint, and where there is vibration and
flex present, crimps will win hands down over solder.

But you can part with over 200 quid for the crimping tools per crimp type !

Steve

 

W

William MacLeod

Guest

• Sep 9, 2004

• #18

Steve Taylor wrote:

> Proper crimps, and I don't count Lucar bullets as one of them, are
> usually better than a soldered joint, and where there is vibration and
> flex present, crimps will win hands down over solder.

But that's why you don't just solder, you heatshrink as well to help with
any loads, and zip tie to minimise vibration.

I just really don't like lucar connectors.

Regards

William MacLeod

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Sep 9, 2004

• #19

On or around Thu, 09 Sep 2004 01:35:53 GMT, William MacLeod
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>I just really don't like lucar connectors.

having said that, they do work amazingly well under very naff conditions, if
properly done.

the horrid red blue and yellow ones aren't so bad either if you spend enough
on the crimping tool. I've a crimping tool that cost about 25 quid, and
does a much more convincing job of crimping than the normal ones you buy
with a box of crimp terminals.

the proper lucas ones have a different type of actual crimping action,
starts with a U shape and curls the sides round in to the middle. Where
these have been put on properly (i.e. by the manufacturers, using the
correct tool) they do last incredibly well - I don't think I've ever seen
one come undone. Obviously, they can corrode, and the wire can break.

the point about solder AIUI is that the heat weakens the copper immediatel;y
beside the joint. If you heat-shrin kit and tie it as you describe, this is
less of a problem, however you should be washing the flux off after
soldering it as well, since that is corrosive (else it wouldn't work).

however, back to the point, unless you need/want to modify the loom
enormously, then a ready-made loom for 120 notes is pretty damned good
value, provided they've used decent components to make it.

 

T

Tom Woods

Guest

• Sep 9, 2004

• #20

On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:36:43 +0100, "rav_k" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Thanks Both,
>
>I had a look at Autosparks, but at £120.21 plus. I thought that a little on
>the expensive side for a bunch of cables and a few connectors...
>
>I want to wire it myself, but would like to copy the original loom in terms
>of how long each wire needs to be, etc...outside of the vehicle prior to
>taking out the original. I don't want to take out the existing one and then
>start from scratch, as i feel that would be a little more than i could
>handle... this way i can complete the loom outside of the landy and then
>route and replace the orignal bit by bit....
>
>If i had a loom from the same type of vehicle then i could unwrap it onto
>the floor and copy it, to create another, e.g. the red wire needs to be 13
>inches long and starts from the back of the instrument panel and ends at the
>left hand side indicator..etc
>
>does this make sense or am i just waffling?

I've rewired 3 landies so far.

Starting from scratch, and making a new loom with a proper fuse box
and lots of extra bits in it (like proper headlamp, spotlamp and
worklamp feeds with relays, and more dasboard stuff) I reckon it is a
weeks worth of evenings work (first one took me longer!), and the bits
cost me £50-£60 quid.

For that i'd end up with 4 or 5 different colours of wire of varying
sizes, and a new blade fuse box, and some 7 core cable.
(http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.co.uk/ is a good place to look)

If you do end up making one, just sit down and look at the standard LR
diagram (in the haynes book it is only one page!). then start thinking
about what else to add. Work out on a bit of paper what you want to
fuse and where you want to locate any relays or flasher units. I have
relocated all my fuse boxes inside as it is less messy (meaning less
oil/mud/water splashing)
I wouldnt bother copying the landy one. everytime ive worked through
it ive noticed how if one thing goes wrong loads of other things will
die too!. Just use it as a basis for your plans.

7 core trailer cable is a nice easy, cheap and tidy way to do things
like the loom from front to back, and also the rest of the lights. You
can get a small reel.

Wrapping it all with tape makes it tidy and stronger. If possible
leave the wrapping till last as you will surely think of things that
you have forgotten!. You can use small loops of insulating tape to
hold it togther in the mean time.

Where it isnt possible to use different coloured cable make sure you
label stuff properly! (ive used white insulating tape which you can
write on)

Good luck!