Wheel resistance

Hi all, a few months ago I bought a 1974 series 3. The vehicle had been rebuilt by a previous owner a couple of years ago and seemed in pretty good condition. I’ve done a few cosmetic upgrades but have little or no mechanical knowledge. Anyway, whilst merrily driving along at around 40mph a couple of weeks the wheels locked up and I went in to a skid across the carriageway. It felt as though someone had pulled the handbrake on or slammed the front brakes on but I hadn’t touched either. I had heard a metallic ‘ping’ sound just prior to this but thought that might just be a stone flicking up out of the tyre tread (and may still be).
after the vehicle came to a halt I selected first to try and drive to the side of the road (it was dark and I was on an unlit country road on the wrong side of the carriageway). The vehicle moved with all four wheels rotating but there was significant resistance...again it felt as though the brakes were stuck on. I got out expecting to see something hanging off/collapsed or obviously damaged but the vehicle looked fine externally.
I called the AA as I needed to get back and it was late (who attended very efficiently). The guy backed the Landy up which seemed to operate a bit more freely. He then drove it off a short distance and said something definitely wasn’t right but he didn’t know what. He offered to take me to a garage or home and so I opted to be towed home (shame of it)!!
To tow it back he disconnected the rear prop shaft and raised the front wheels on a spec. Mr AA fella seemed to think there was an issue with the front diff??
Now, as stated I have very limited mechanical knowledge so apologies but I’m looking for help in 1) diagnosis 2) fix. Ive raised all four wheels off the ground and got it on axle stands. In 1st gear 2wd the rear wheels both turn however the rear near side seems to struggle slightly to rotate every few rotations. In addition both front wheels seem to have significant resistance to turning(I guess this is what occurred when they locked up). They will rotate by hand with some effort but as if the brakes are stuck on. This is regardless of whether the free wheel hubs are engaged or not and whether in 2wd or 4wd. With 4wd engaged on axle stands the front wheels hardly rotate at all and I don’t want to give it much power for fear of damaging something further.

Anyone any thoughts or ideas which may help Please? There are also clearly a couple of oil leaks...possibly gearbox rather than engine oil but again not 100% sure. It seems strange how when driving in a straight line at a fairly constant speed without touching brakes/levers or anything the wheels just locked (front I believe).

If the wheels turn freely with the propshafts removed it will most likely be the transfer gearbox.

Mr Chaffey said:

If the wheels turn freely with the propshafts removed it will most likely be the transfer gearbox.

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On the transfer gearbox is the hand brake, a brake unit that does not fully release can heat up as one drives until the thing seizes on. [ problem is worn/sticky expander, broken return spring or loose shoe material]
As well as handbrake issue could be a wheel brake, issue is usually a stuck brake slave piston.
I would have a look inside the one hard to turn first.

Mr Chaffey said:

If the wheels turn freely with the propshafts removed it will most likely be the transfer gearbox.

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Thanks for the prompt replies both...I’ll try this over the holiday period and see what happens.

Just make sure the handbrake drum moves freely once the prop shaft is removed.

This is very odd. I'd like to concentrate on the front, but first - are the back wheels easy to turn by hand in neutral? I'm going to assume they are.

When you say that one wheel hesitates a bit I'd imagine that this is just the diff doing its thing and the opposite one was actually going a bit faster at the time.(And to remove any doubt - you've got the rear prop back on and this was with the engine running?).

Front then. To be sure that it's not in 4wd, can you spin the propshaft without the handbrake drum /rear prop turning? Free wheel hubs and to make sure they're disengaging- can you turn the front pshaft without the wheels turning? And if you can -any strange noises/resistance from inside the axle?

Did you check the front brakes aren’t stuck on as you mentioned, can the drum be removed easily
and were you sure you were not driving in 4wd high , that can make the steering feel a bit weird and also cause issues

did you check / top up all the oil levels after you got it

boguing said:

This is very odd. I'd like to concentrate on the front, but first - are the back wheels easy to turn by hand in neutral? I'm going to assume they are.

When you say that one wheel hesitates a bit I'd imagine that this is just the diff doing its thing and the opposite one was actually going a bit faster at the time.(And to remove any doubt - you've got the rear prop back on and this was with the engine running?).

Front then. To be sure that it's not in 4wd, can you spin the propshaft without the handbrake drum /rear prop turning? Free wheel hubs and to make sure they're disengaging- can you turn the front pshaft without the wheels turning? And if you can -any strange noises/resistance from inside the axle?

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boguing said:

This is very odd. I'd like to concentrate on the front, but first - are the back wheels easy to turn by hand in neutral? I'm going to assume they are.

When you say that one wheel hesitates a bit I'd imagine that this is just the diff doing its thing and the opposite one was actually going a bit faster at the time.(And to remove any doubt - you've got the rear prop back on and this was with the engine running?).

Front then. To be sure that it's not in 4wd, can you spin the propshaft without the handbrake drum /rear prop turning? Free wheel hubs and to make sure they're disengaging- can you turn the front pshaft without the wheels turning? And if you can -any strange noises/resistance from inside the axle?

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Thanks for the response and apologies for the delay (working nights)!! The rear wheels in neutral can both be rotated by hand but the rear offside is slightly stiffer every few rotations as if it’s meeting some minor resistance. This ties in with the engine running in 1st (wheels off ground) why one rotated freely but the other struggles every few rotations (rear prop is back on…mr AA kindly reattached so I could drive it back down the drive).
The front wheels though offer far more resistance. I’ll try the prop shaft whrr we’re n I get back later but certainly seemed to be the same whether hubs were engaged or disengaged and 4wd engaged or disengaged. Thanks again for the interest I’ll come back later on.

steve2286w said:

Did you check the front brakes aren’t stuck on as you mentioned, can the drum be removed easily
and were you sure you were not driving in 4wd high , that can make the steering feel a bit weird and also cause issues

did you check / top up all the oil levels after you got it

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With the risk of sounding really thick I haven’t yet took the front wheels and hubs off yet as thought I’d check if there were any obvious simple explanations/checks before I started taking things apart!!

I’m 100% sure that it wasn’t being driven in 4wd and hubs were also free wheeling in 2wd (at least until they locked up).

The only oil level I’ve checked in my ownership is engine oil.

These are simple Checks with no stripping down



Here is the workshop manual if you don’t have one , at the front is the common maintenance jobs described ie topping up gearbox, transferbox, diffs, swivel hubs

ive had brake issues where the wheel gets tight with nuts tightened up , so I would first loosen nuts on wheel see if it turns easier then , then back off brake adjusters on front and check again , then with wheel off the drum should wobble a bit and should rattle/shake it part off … but you don’t need to take it off just move a bit to see if free
if it is brakes binding hard or the transmission brake you won’t need to drive far before they get warm
these steps eliminate binding

Free wheeling hubs unlocked, driving along, front wheels lock up while driving. Something might have gone ping.
I doubt a series would have enough power to drive unnoticed with some/all brakes binding to the point they lock up
There's nothing that could go ping to cause brakes on a series to engage without touching the pedal. Therefore it stands to reason it's unlikely brakes on both front wheels.
I would check whether the free wheeling hubs are actually unlocked (regardless what the lever says. Could be jammed/seized/broken)
Lift one front wheel up can you turn it? Then try the other. Should spin very easily.
Lock the hubs and try again, should take a bit more effort but not much, you should see the prop turn

steve2286w said:

These are simple Checks with no stripping down

Land Rover Manuals

smithies.co.nz

Here is the workshop manual if you don’t have one , at the front is the common maintenance jobs described ie topping up gearbox, transferbox, diffs, swivel hubs

ive had brake issues where the wheel gets tight with nuts tightened up , so I would first loosen nuts on wheel see if it turns easier then , then back off brake adjusters on front and check again , then with wheel off the drum should wobble a bit and should rattle/shake it part off … but you don’t need to take it off just move a bit to see if free
if it is brakes binding hard or the transmission brake you won’t need to drive far before they get warm
these steps eliminate binding

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Thanks for the link to the manual and advice.

kermit_rr said:

Free wheeling hubs unlocked, driving along, front wheels lock up while driving. Something might have gone ping.
I doubt a series would have enough power to drive unnoticed with some/all brakes binding to the point they lock up
There's nothing that could go ping to cause brakes on a series to engage without touching the pedal. Therefore it stands to reason it's unlikely brakes on both front wheels.
I would check whether the free wheeling hubs are actually unlocked (regardless what the lever says. Could be jammed/seized/broken)
Lift one front wheel up can you turn it? Then try the other. Should spin very easily.
Lock the hubs and try again, should take a bit more effort but not much, you should see the prop turn

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With the vehicle on axle stands, engine/handbrake off and not in gear the rear wheels turn easily and for some reason even the rear nearside wheel seems to be turning without the slight resistance it had when I first jacked it up. When turning the rear wheels by hand the prop doesn’t turn and they spin in opposite directions (presume that’s normal)??
with the front hubs in 2wd the front wheels are difficult to turn by hand but they do With effort. When they are rotated the front prop doesn’t move. When the hubs are engaged and again try to rotate the wheels, the resistance is the same, you hear a click which presumably is the lock engaging and then when they are turned you can see the front prop rotating.

hopefully that makes sense. Is there a way of attaching video clips on here or just photos as I have a good couple of clips of what’s happening but can’t see how a video is attached. I’ve also got a nice puddle of oil under the gearbox now (possibly two different types) but I guess that’s probably a separate issue.

it does almost feel like the front brakes are just stuck on but bizarre why that would happen out of the blue whilst driving unless that was just that it reached the point of expansion through heat friction...but wouldn’t they release when cool?

i think I’ll get the front wheels off and try and see what’s going on in the hubs just struggling for time at the mo as working until after Christmas. Thanks again for everyone’s input.

You can put a video on u tube and share the link

with all wheels up on stands in 4wd , turn one wheel at back and front should turn too

how big a puddle of oil , if it’s clutch fluid that feels / smells different

if you turn one front wheel does other turn in opposite direction with free wheel hubs engaged

some interesting reading here too

With truck on stands all wheels off the ground even in 4wd the likely effect of turning one rear wheel is the other rear wheel rotating opposite way. The path of least resistance and diff doing its thing.
For the prop to turn the transfer and front axle one rear wheel needs to be locked [on the ground or do up brake adjuster]

When the fw hubs were engaged and the prop shaft spun, what was the other wheel doing? From memory my cars would spin the prop rather than the opposite wheel, with the brake problem yours definitely will, so to confirm the front diff is ok, hold the prop while you spin one wheel - that should force the other to turn (the wrong way - as you found at the back). Pretty sure it'll be fine.

Moving on.

It could be that the brakes are binding anyway and not part of the problem. But if they were I'd be wondering about a master cylinder fault of some sort if it was indeed the fronts that stopped you.

Then the oil. Is this a new problem? If it is then we're back looking at a major problem in the gearboxes. (Back axle sounds as if it's working as it should).

With all 4 wheels up can start up and check the wheels drive corectly

steve2286w said:

With all 4 wheels up can start up and check the wheels drive corectly

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Ok, I’m back on it with a couple of hours to try some diagnostics from everyone’s advice.

1) with all four wheels on axle stands in 2wd rear wheels drive pretty much as they should. As soon as 4wd is engaged and the front hubs are locked the fronts really struggle to turn and I don’t want to give too much revs as clearly something is wrong.

2) I’ve loosened off the front nearside wheel nuts and that immediately seemed to release that wheel. I’ve taken it off completely now as well as the drum cover and the hub seems to spin relatively freely. Pictures of drum below.

I then moved to the offside which was still struggling to spin. I loosened the nuts and it made no difference. I’ve taken the wheel and drum cover off and no difference. I can just about turn the hub (whether 4wd engaged or not) by hand and you can kind of feel as if there’s a mechanical resistance inside somewhere as if not lubricated where it should be if that makes sense??
Could that be something to do with the two oil puddles underneath (bear in mind it hasn’t moved for two weeks)??
Any recommendation on where to go from here. All of the nuts on both hubs seemed only finger tight (they won’t come off because the fwh prevents them and I can’t get that off at the moment but is that normal)??

With the transfer box in 2wd, what happens when you rotate the front pshaft? If there's a problem with the diff it might give a clue. The expected result would be the n/s hub rotating and no noise or graunchiness, but that won't fully rule out the diff.

I think you're going to have to strip the o/s hub off the axle to pin it down.

I don't have any explanation as to why loosening the n/s wheel nuts made any difference, unless the wheel itself was fouling something.

The hub nuts being loose is interesting but not unusual if they weren't tightened properly. If the same person worked on other bits it might explain what you're soon to discover!

I can't help with the oil leaks. Looks like transfer box which might been have been damaged enough to strain a joint. Whether that caused what's happening in the front axle or vice versa is still a mystery. (To me anyway).

It does take a fair bit of effort to spin a hub by hand with FWH engaged, after all you are also turning the diff, other wheel and/or front prop. The fact that drum came off with little effort shows brake not binding.