What did I do wrong?

Hi guys,

Need some advice.

1989 LR90 2.5TD 19J

Have had trouble with glow plugs taking 30secs + to heat up so decided to buy new ones and replace them.

eBay.co.uk: Land Rover 2.5 Diesel Glow Plugs Brand New (item 300109207192 end time 14-May-07 10:42:41 BST)

Done on Saturday.

Started her up after putting the last one in and all worked fine. Went for 10 min spin and then shut her off.

Tried to start her this morning.....NOTHING!

The plugs I took out were German Beru 0100221106.

When I turn the key to start engine a relay behind the fuse box clicks.

It has an aftermarket immobaliser fitted (before I owned it).

I think my first job tonight wil be to put the old glow plugs back in and see if that works.

Apart from that, any ideas of where to start would be appreciated.

Many thanks in advance.

MyLandRover90

NO NO.

Leave the new plugs where they are. (I hope you copper-greased them ...)

They are connected in parallel, so unless all four have failed at the same time, which is pretty much out of the question, they can be assumed to be fine.

Get a simple 12 volt test lamp with crock clip at each end.

Clip one end to EARTH (a bit of the engine f'rinstance) and clip the other onto the nut end of any glow plug.

Place the lamp where you can see it from the driver's seat.

Turn IGN to heat position.

Either the lamp lights up or it doesn't.

From that starting point carry out diagnosis by chasing the electricity through.

Are the top tips of the glow plugs connected correctly?

I don't like the look of the numbers of the BERU plugs you took out.
The correct BERU number should be more like 151 MJ .

Are you SURE you have the right plugs?
If you managed to get plugs for the 2,25 diesel ... stuffed ....

Try Bosch 0 250 200 056
Champion CH 63
Lucas KLG GF 210/T

These are old numbers from a book about the same age as your engine.

Remember, these plugs are connected in PARALLEL, and each one takes about 90 to 100 watts of power, so at least 8 to 10 amps each from cold. Easy for a bad connection, poor old relay contacts or a duff fuse to bring them down.

CharlesY

Hi CharlesY.

I will follow instruction and let you know.

Strange how it worked then didn't.

Many thanks.

I will follow instruction and let you know.

Strange how it worked then didn't.
MyLandRover90


Yes, but it happens all the time when you service something!
This syndrome is the cause of the saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"!

As time passes, the glow plugs tend to draw less current, and one or two may fail entirely, thus over a period cutting down the current taken through all the wires, relay and connections. The dodgy connections may be able to handle the reduced load, just.

Then suddenly you come along and screw the whole thing up by fitting 4 new plugs taking maximum load.

This can cause the system's weakness (such as a loose joint or a relay with dodgy contacts, finally to decide to throw in the towel and give up.

Just make completely sure you have 12 volt plugs of the correct fitting size. The exact model of plug isn't a big problem, as long as they are all 12 volt plugs, they fit the head properly, and they are wired in parallel.

Wiring in parallel means the tops of the plugs are all joined together by one hefty (usually yellow) cable, and on ONE of the plugs (no matter which one) there is a cable coming from the glowplug relay at the bulkhead or wherever it is in your car.

If you have a really serious ammeter that reads up to 100 amps, you can connect that in series with the wire from the relay. With the plugs on GLOW, the current should hit 60 - 70 amps for half-a-second, then settle down quickly to a steady draw of about 30 to 40 amps.

I bet you get this sorted.

CHarlesY

CharlesY said:

Yes, but it happens all the time when you service something!
This syndrome is the cause of the saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"!

Click to expand...

Or in my case, "if it ain't broke, find a way to brake it!"

Wiring in parallel means the tops of the plugs are all joined together by one hefty (usually yellow) cable, and on ONE of the plugs (no matter which one) there is a cable coming from the glowplug relay at the bulkhead or wherever it is in your car.

Click to expand...

Yep. All present and correct. I took the old ones all off before and put them accross a battery to time their heating, which is why i decided to change them. Put them all back again and all was normal.

I bet you get this sorted.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your confidence and the advice.

It really is appreciated.

WHAT DID I DO WRONG

Click to expand...

Bought a Defender

Dont get all this "glow plug malarky" cos if yeh engines O.K you dont need em until the temerature drops to at least -5

90man said:

Bought a Defender

Click to expand...

What would you suggest? A Pajero?

MyLandRover90 said:

What would you suggest? A Pajero?

Click to expand...

Think it was a Joke

Jason2 said:

Think it was a Joke

Click to expand...

I know. Thats why I said about the Pajero.

Hi Jason2. What's you take on my Glow Plug problem??

What stage you at?

Will it still not start? At all? ever?

When you connect glow plugs direct to battery they should glow red within seconds, if they dont they are knackered!!!

I know it's not the same engine but my 300tdi will crack up first turn at -5 without glow plugs!!!

Also have a 40 year old dumper that aint got em and will do the same with a starting handle.

Try a bit off easy start in your air filter.If it still wont start with easy start then you know it's not (or just) yeh plugs.

I didn't manage to do anything yesterday, but am wondering if the battery has not got enough power.

I read your 1st post about not needing the glow plugs to start it, and am thinking that you could be right, it started straight after fitting the last glow plug on Saturday but now nothing.

Would it be worth putting on a jump start pack or taking the battery out and charging it?

If yeh batterys knacked it's not going to happen, even if it turns it over, if there's not enough "umpth" there your not going to start a DIESEL.

Charge it or get a new one

Jason

This has really given me food for thought.

Thanks Jason.

No.

The 19J engine is not a direct injection engine, and almost always it will need a good glow to get it running from a cold start. Most of them will start without a glow for the rest of the day, but that first start of the day needs a goodly heat-up. This is a function of the INDIRECT injection principle of the pre-tdi types of engines.

Many tdi engines will fire up without a glow even on quite cold starts.

I too have Thwaites Nimbus dumper. It has a single cylinder direct injection diesel engine of about 510 ccs, and starts on the handle even on a frosty morning. However, it starts a lot quicker on frosty mornings if I pour a kettle of boiling water over its cylinder head!

Other times I use a butane blowtorch to warm it up.

Diesels always start quicker and cleaner when they are HOT.

Indirect injection diesels may not start at all when cold, without the glow.
If your battery has enough power to turn the starter, it has mountains enough power to light the glow plugs. Using the glow plugs for a few seconds HELPS the battery to have more OOOOMPH for the starter because the battery warms up a little as it powers the glowplugs and a warm battery produces a lot more amps than a cold one.

I still think your glowplugs are not getting hot enough for some reason.

Have you taken them out to see them glow?

CharlesY

Hi Charles,

I have not managed to do anything yet.

I do understand what you are saying, but maybe the fact that all I get is a clicking relay when I try to start it mean that there isn't enough power in the battery to turn the starter.

Before I take out the glow plugs, which i was advised not to do, would it not be an idea to fully charge the battery?

I am thinking I will attach the jump pack about 12:00 try it, if nothing I will take the battery out and charge it then put it back in tonight and see what difference that makes.

If still nothing I will take the plugs out, put TNT into the holes and light the fuses.

Just put the jump pack on the landy, no change. Although it didn't crackle when putting the clip on, which it usually does.

It's now on charge, the charger said 50% then went to 75% after 2 mins.

The saga continues.......

Battery Charged yet?

Ok.

Got home, battery fully charged. Stuck it back in. Nothing. Took fuse box apart, checked all wiring. Fine.

Changed all Glow Plugs back to the original, gave starter motor a tickle with my fingers and tried again. It burped at me. So it showed signs of life for a millisecond then back to nothing.

I refered to the fault finding bit in the Haynes and everything led to a faulty starter motor.

So I gave up, went in and had dinner.

But I couldn't leave it. So me and the missus went out, I showed her the problem and she kept saying "You can fix it, I know you can".

At that moment I felt a cable just above the starter motor, then felt the end of it. AH!!! A cable not connected to something is not doing it's job.

So I felt around and found something to push it onto.

Turned the key....





BBBBBBUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMM.

Well more splutter..splutter..putt...putt... Well it is a 19J.

So, any ideas what cable this is and any ideas what I have attached it to? I can't tell you as I can only just see the starter. I am thinking it's either the Earth Lead or something to do with the Immobiliser.

I know I might be asking too much as each vehicle is different but any advise is always welcome.