Welding - which way to go

P

Paul S. Brown

Guest

• Aug 25, 2004

• #1

I've got a load of ideas for stuff that I could make, but to make it
involves getting a welder of some description.

My problem here is that I'm a little budget limited given the other things
I'd have to get to go with it (angle grinder, pillar drill etc..) and so
I'm trying to get a "Most bang for the buck" welder.

I have no intention of doing any particularly fine work - car body panels
are unlikely to feature. The work I'm going to be doing is going to be on
2-3mm steel and stainless steel.

As I see it I have four options, more or less.

Oxy Acetylene

TIG

Stick Welder

MIG

To my mind the Acetylene rig is probably the most flexible, with the stick
welder being the cheapest and reasonably OK for heavy material. The
question is, is either of them good for both mild and stainless.

To get a MIG heavy enough for the stuff I'm doing is probably going to be
3-400 quid as far as I can tell, while TIGs are just damned expensive to
begin with and seem to need the same set of skills as an acetylene torch.

Any suggestions/comments/pointers to places selling cheap welders?

It's a little annoying that the only MIGs I can see on eBay that are even
vaguely worth looking at (Start price is less than retail price) are the
90A gassless ones that I suspect would be OK for welding bean tins together
but not much heavier.

P.

 

E

EMB

Guest

• Aug 25, 2004

• #2

Paul S. Brown wrote:
> I've got a load of ideas for stuff that I could make, but to make it
> involves getting a welder of some description.
>
> My problem here is that I'm a little budget limited given the other things
> I'd have to get to go with it (angle grinder, pillar drill etc..) and so
> I'm trying to get a "Most bang for the buck" welder.
>
> I have no intention of doing any particularly fine work - car body panels
> are unlikely to feature. The work I'm going to be doing is going to be on
> 2-3mm steel and stainless steel.
>
Oxy/Acet is out - you can't do stainless.
MIG & TIG are out on price.
Arc with the right rods will do stainless okay, just remember that the
rods are expensive, and that with an AC arc welder it is quite hard to
strike an arc.


--
EMB
change two to number to reply

 

R

rav_k

Guest

• Aug 25, 2004

• #3

is this any good? ebay item 3835949814
not connected to sellor in any way.

rav


"Paul S. Brown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've got a load of ideas for stuff that I could make, but to make it
> involves getting a welder of some description.
>
> My problem here is that I'm a little budget limited given the other things
> I'd have to get to go with it (angle grinder, pillar drill etc..) and so
> I'm trying to get a "Most bang for the buck" welder.
>
> I have no intention of doing any particularly fine work - car body panels
> are unlikely to feature. The work I'm going to be doing is going to be on
> 2-3mm steel and stainless steel.
>
> As I see it I have four options, more or less.
>
> Oxy Acetylene
>
> TIG
>
> Stick Welder
>
> MIG
>
> To my mind the Acetylene rig is probably the most flexible, with the stick
> welder being the cheapest and reasonably OK for heavy material. The
> question is, is either of them good for both mild and stainless.
>
> To get a MIG heavy enough for the stuff I'm doing is probably going to be
> 3-400 quid as far as I can tell, while TIGs are just damned expensive to
> begin with and seem to need the same set of skills as an acetylene torch.
>
> Any suggestions/comments/pointers to places selling cheap welders?
>
> It's a little annoying that the only MIGs I can see on eBay that are even
> vaguely worth looking at (Start price is less than retail price) are the
> 90A gassless ones that I suspect would be OK for welding bean tins
together
> but not much heavier.
>
> P.

 

E

EMB

Guest

• Aug 25, 2004

• #4

rav_k wrote:

> is this any good? ebay item 3835949814
> not connected to sellor in any way.
>
Looks like a fairly good entry level MIG and the price is very right at
the moment.


--
EMB
change two to number to reply

 

P

Paul S. Brown

Guest

• Aug 25, 2004

• #5

EMB wrote:

> rav_k wrote:
>
>> is this any good? ebay item 3835949814
>> not connected to sellor in any way.
>>
> Looks like a fairly good entry level MIG and the price is very right at
> the moment.
>
>

I saw that one earlier - unfortunately it's in Manchester and I'm in
Aylesbury - bit far to go for a local pickup.

I may well bid on it anyway.

Paul

 

T

Tim Hobbs

Guest

• Aug 25, 2004

• #6

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 18:48:18 GMT, "Paul S. Brown"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>EMB wrote:
>
>> rav_k wrote:
>>
>>> is this any good? ebay item 3835949814
>>> not connected to sellor in any way.
>>>
>> Looks like a fairly good entry level MIG and the price is very right at
>> the moment.
>>
>>
>
>I saw that one earlier - unfortunately it's in Manchester and I'm in
>Aylesbury - bit far to go for a local pickup.
>
>I may well bid on it anyway.
>
>Paul

Get a weight from the seller. It will be cheaper for you to send your
own carrier than drive up. Shouldn't be any more than 20 quid for
delivery.


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'95 Discovery V8i aka "The Disco" (SOLD)
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Aug 25, 2004

• #7

On or around Wed, 25 Aug 2004 18:02:43 GMT, "Paul S. Brown"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>Oxy Acetylene

does anything if you know how, but some stuff requires esoteric flux and
more skill.
>
>TIG

dead-cunnning, good for stainless, expensive.

>Stick Welder

cheap, more hassle (cleaning welds etc.) and I don;t doubt you can get
stainless rods, but they may be pricey.

>MIG

most flexible and easy to use. Yer looking at something around a 150A sort
of size, for the stuff you want to do, I reckon, to have sufficient duty
cycle. it'll do stainless with stainless wire and the right gas, and is
easy to switch one for 'tother.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
In Touch: Get in touch with yourself by touching yourself.
If somebody is watching, stop touching yourself.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Aug 25, 2004

• #8

On or around Thu, 26 Aug 2004 06:40:35 +1200, EMB <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>rav_k wrote:
>
>> is this any good? ebay item 3835949814
>> not connected to sellor in any way.
>>
>Looks like a fairly good entry level MIG and the price is very right at
>the moment.

depending on what it goes for, does look OK. factor in the price of bottle,
regulator etc. though. Mind, you need a bottle for any of 'em. I rent one
from air products, tiddly size (PT10) which has lasted for ages so far on
the amount of welding I do.

the crappy little disposable bottles are exactly that.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
In Touch: Get in touch with yourself by touching yourself.
If somebody is watching, stop touching yourself.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

 

E

EMB

Guest

• Aug 25, 2004

• #9

Austin Shackles wrote:

> the crappy little disposable bottles are exactly that.

And really expensive for what they are. And if you want to weld
stainless you're up for an argon cylinder too (and that's really
expensive - no change out of 50 quid for the small cylinder I use).


--
EMB
change two to number to reply

 

S

Steve Taylor

Guest

• Aug 25, 2004

• #10

Paul S. Brown wrote:

> To get a MIG heavy enough for the stuff I'm doing is probably going to be
> 3-400 quid as far as I can tell, while TIGs are just damned expensive to
> begin with and seem to need the same set of skills as an acetylene torch.

Entry level MIG should handle up to 3mm in MS for sure, just use the
right gas.

Steve

 

A

Andy Warner

Guest

• Aug 26, 2004

• #11

"Paul S. Brown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've got a load of ideas for stuff that I could make, but to make it
> involves getting a welder of some description.
>
> My problem here is that I'm a little budget limited given the other things
> I'd have to get to go with it (angle grinder, pillar drill etc..) and so
> I'm trying to get a "Most bang for the buck" welder.
>
> I have no intention of doing any particularly fine work - car body panels
> are unlikely to feature. The work I'm going to be doing is going to be on
> 2-3mm steel and stainless steel.

My suggestion would be to buy a 2nd hand industrial MIG from ebay, or your
local agricultural/industrial tools place. Should be able to get a good
single phase 180A with plenty of life left for under £200. New cheap migs
aren't worth the money you'll have to shell out to pay for a converter to
run a big bottle of gas, they're also generally unreliable as they have crap
wire feed mechanisms not suited to heavy use, and will be likely to overheat
regularly on 2-3mm plate. With a higher powered industrial one, you'll be
able to run 0.8 or 1.0mm wire which hardly ever snags, and you won't be
running the welder flat out all the time, so it won't be overheating. As
with many workshop tools, the best thing I've found to do is to buy decent
quality equipment second hand, rather than new cheap crap.


All the best

Andy

 

E

EMB

Guest

• Aug 26, 2004

• #12

Andy Warner wrote:


> With a higher powered industrial one, you'll be
> able to run 0.8 or 1.0mm wire which hardly ever snags, and you won't be
> running the welder flat out all the time, so it won't be overheating. As
> with many workshop tools, the best thing I've found to do is to buy decent
> quality equipment second hand, rather than new cheap crap.
>

I'd only run 0.8mm in a 180amp machine - any larger and you haven't got
enough control of the wire speed at low voltage settings. If you're
only welding up to 3mm plate and you haven't got a long torch (only a
couple of metres) 0.6mm should be fine.

If you're buying secondhand try and get a MIG with a Euro connector for
the torch - makes fitting a new liner much easier (and also fitting a
new torch after you run the old one over or decide to buy a 4 metre one).


--
EMB
change two to number to reply

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Aug 26, 2004

• #13

On or around Fri, 27 Aug 2004 06:40:29 +1200, EMB <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:
>
>If you're buying secondhand try and get a MIG with a Euro connector for
>the torch - makes fitting a new liner much easier (and also fitting a
>new torch after you run the old one over or decide to buy a 4 metre one).

speaking of liners... the cheap 'orrid plastic one on mine went wrong (wire
managed to poke itself through it), and I replaced it with some dead-posh
bicycle gear cable outer ('cos i happened to have it) which is wirewound and
got a plastic inner liner to it. works fine, and is a good bit tougher than
the original.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine... War is hell"
Gen. Sherman (1820-1891) Attr. words in Address at Michigan Military
Academy, 19 June 1879.

 

W

William MacLeod

Guest

• Aug 27, 2004

• #14

Paul S. Brown wrote:

> I've got a load of ideas for stuff that I could make, but to make it
> involves getting a welder of some description.
>
> My problem here is that I'm a little budget limited given the other things
> I'd have to get to go with it (angle grinder, pillar drill etc..) and so
> I'm trying to get a "Most bang for the buck" welder.
>
> I have no intention of doing any particularly fine work - car body panels
> are unlikely to feature. The work I'm going to be doing is going to be on
> 2-3mm steel and stainless steel.

I'd go for a stick welder (arc)

1) Cause it's the cheapest

2) You'll never have to worry about why the wire's not feeding

3) No costly yearly gas cylinder rentals (especially since you'd need two
cylinders - I've paid more than my 175A Mig cost already in cylinder rental
and gas refills)

4) Easier to learn than O/A, Tig and nearly as easy as Mig

I have O/A, Mig and a couple of Arc welders, to be honest I mainly use Mig
but it needs a lot of maintenance - wire goes rusty if you leave it in it,
it's a pain to take the spools out, gas needs to be filled, regulators
break, bottle keys get lost, wire feed needs adjusting with different
rollers for different wire.....

Trusty old arc welders are always ready for work! Keep the rods inside in a
nice dry warm room. Especially for 2-3mm steel - can't beat a arc welder
for getting the job done without having to stop for something or other.
Never used anything other than Tig on stainless and it was no problem - but
I'm sure you can get stainless rods for arc welders too.
www.theweldingwarehouse.com have good prices on Tig units (best I've seen)
and I've had stuff from them in the past, they were very good and phoned me
to double check some stuff before they sent it.

Regards

William MacLeod

 

S

[email protected]

Guest

• Aug 27, 2004

• #15

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 01:03:06 GMT, William MacLeod
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Trusty old arc welders are always ready for work! Keep the rods inside in a
>nice dry warm room. Especially for 2-3mm steel - can't beat a arc welder
>for getting the job done without having to stop for something or other.

I am not sure, for long runs in sheet steel the mig and coogar win
hands down, for agricultural repairs then it's the stick welder
genset. I have kept my rods in the vehicle in a 2" mortar round
container, which has a rubber seal, and they seem ok even after a few
years.

AJH

 

E

EMB

Guest

• Aug 27, 2004

• #16

[email protected] wrote:

> I am not sure, for long runs in sheet steel the mig and coogar win
> hands down, for agricultural repairs then it's the stick welder
> genset. I have kept my rods in the vehicle in a 2" mortar round
> container, which has a rubber seal, and they seem ok even after a few
> years.

MIG for anything clean, or that can be cleaned up and that isn't some
wierd alloy. Arc for dirty stuff and the wierd alloys that only an RSP
or Hi-Ten rod will stick to.

--
EMB
change two to number to reply