Water pump leaking oil..update

Flossie · Nov 3, 2018

Following on from my clutch saga and waiting for the bits to do that job to arrive I decided to replace my waterpump.
Now, my 200tdi has had a few mods , one of them being studs fitted in various places replacing bolts, and vice versa.
I found it easier using studs on the timing case in a few places for example, helps to hold gaskets in place.
I've possibly done the same with the waterpump, can't remember tbh as it was 14yrs ago. Never had any issues until I've just run up the engine and checking for water leaks around the pump and saw oil leaking along the stud.
What's the best course of action to cure this? It's quite a bad steady leak which is ending up on the inside of the waterpump pulley and will get flinged everywhere.

lynall · Nov 4, 2018

Lot of work to fix properly, hows about remove nut and washer, clean as best as you can, squirt some silicone, (proper silicone not 1.99 a tube stuff) then use a copper washer or a dowty washer under the nut and see how you get on?
Then when belts are enxt due you can do it properly.

Was the studding proper 8.8 stuff or that cheap crap 4.4 gear?

lynall · Nov 4, 2018

Ps I reckon thats the most unusual 200 defect I have ever seen!

Blackburn · Nov 5, 2018

Sure I have heard of this before the hole goes through into an oil way in block maybe due to to long a bolt being fitted in the past.
If cleaned out stud could be loctited in to stop oil leak, but needs to be clean.

Flossie · Nov 5, 2018

Are you saying the hole is originally blind but has been broken through by using too long a bolt or stud?
Just got back from a long walk to a LR indy to get new gaskets and the mechanic there has never seen this before either.
I showed him the picture.
I unfortunately cannot get the stainless steel stud out now, spent a couple of hours at it and it won't shift, tried heat as well.
I'm going to reassemble everything with new gaskets and a thin smear of blue holymor and cross my fingers. Possibly a fibre or copper or dowty washer under the waterpump nut too.

lynall · Nov 5, 2018

Flossie said:
Are you saying the hole is originally blind but has been broken through by using too long a bolt or stud?
Just got back from a long walk to a LR indy to get new gaskets and the mechanic there has never seen this before either.
I showed him the picture.
I unfortunately cannot get the stainless steel stud out now, spent a couple of hours at it and it won't shift, tried heat as well.
I'm going to reassemble everything with new gaskets and a thin smear of blue holymor and cross my fingers. Possibly a fibre or copper or dowty washer under the waterpump nut too.

Stainless studding most likely wont be up to the job unless its special stuff.
I like stainless but for some jobs its not the material on cf choice.

Disco1BFG · Nov 5, 2018

lynall said:
Lot of work to fix properly, hows about remove nut and washer, clean as best as you can, squirt some silicone, (proper silicone not 1.99 a tube stuff) then use a copper washer or a dowty washer under the nut and see how you get on?
Then when belts are enxt due you can do it properly.

Was the studding proper 8.8 stuff or that cheap crap 4.4 gear?

+1 - you might be able to get rid of most of the oil out the hole by using brake cleaner .... maybe .... new full can should be reasonable pressure....

Flossie · Nov 5, 2018

I've got another thread running on this, did it in desperation to get traffic hopefully.
It's all in bits, gonna do the job probably. I used stainless steel because when I stripped the engine down years ago the front cover was completely seized to the steel bolts and broke when I eventually freed it .
It comes off easily now.

jamesmartin · Nov 5, 2018

Flossie said:
I've got another thread running on this, did it in desperation to get traffic hopefully.
It's all in bits, gonna do the job probably. I used stainless steel because when I stripped the engine down years ago the front cover was completely seized to the steel bolts and broke when I eventually freed it .
It comes off easily now.View attachment 162194

yep but your studding doesnt

Flossie · Nov 5, 2018

You've wounded me sir

Blackburn · Nov 6, 2018

Seems odd if oil can pass down the threads and it will not screw out.
I have a ladder rack thread failure believed cause the same way either hydraulic pressure or over long bolt broke the piece off in pic.

jamesmartin · Nov 6, 2018

Blackburn said:
Seems odd if oil can pass down the threads and it will not screw out.
I have a ladder rack thread failure believed cause the same way either hydraulic pressure or over long bolt broke the piece off in pic.

oil isnt coming out from behind the stud but down the stud from between the block and housing

Flossie · Nov 6, 2018

Hopefully it won't anymore.

Flossie · Nov 7, 2018

It's all back together engine wise, still got the interior to put back from the clutch change though.
I've run her up to temperature and it looked like I'd cured it however after about an hour of idling a slight stain started to appear inline with the stud at the front timing case/ rear timing case join.
I tweaked the nut for that stud a little more and I think it's stopped, heavy rain stopped play.
I've got a thick ish fibre washer under that nut which I may remove and replace with a normal or copper one because I think the fibre one is compressing and reducing the clamping force?

lynall · Nov 7, 2018

Fibre one wont be any good as you say it will compress.

Flossie · Nov 7, 2018

lynall said:
Fibre one wont be any good as you say it will compress.

Yeah....that's all I had to hand unfortunately, all the copper and dowty washers I had were too big or too small, think I'll stick a normal flat washer under it and see how it goes.

Flossie · Nov 9, 2018

The extra tweak on that nut seems to have cured it, nice and dry all around the water pump and the front and rear timing cases.
Back on the road again

.

Flossie · Jun 17, 2019

UPDATE...Well...I feel a little foolish

.
@jamesmartin
@lynall
@Blackburn
@Disco1BFG
Still had the oil leak but not too bad then my head gasket went 7 months on from the date of my original post.
Whipping the head off Saturday and noticed bolt number 18 in the tightening sequence was rough coming out. Cleaned the block and head faces up then proceeded to clean and blow out the 18 bolt holes.

number 18 bolt hole is front left in the block and is the first of 5 under the rocker cover.
See the acorn nut holding the water pump on? , the one that was leaking oil....
See what the stud going into the block is in line with?
Yes, hole 18 that the bolt felt rough coming out of.
Cleaning out this hole revealed the stud from the water pump protruding into the head bolt, on assembly after the complete engine reconning in 2014 I've fitted the head last, number 18 head bolt has hit this stud, been torqued to 40 nm then a further 2 X 60deg

.
Hence why I couldn't remove the stud that the oil was leaking from

.
The head bolt also couldn't seal against the head because it wasn't quite going in deep enough.
Head bolt, being under the rocker cover and surmerged in oil of course, let oil past the head flange down the bolt and along the water pump stud to freedom

.
With the head bolt out (slight damage to the end threads) the water pump stud removed easily

.
All back together with a standard nut and steel washer replacing the acorn nut and fibre washer and no more oil leak!

.
The head gasket blowing was almost certainly because number 18 head bolt was, in effect, not clamping the head down

.

it was proper farting out of there and the hot gasses fried the cables going to my electric fan too.

jamesmartin · Jun 17, 2019

good problem solving id expect the oil was from the oil gallery hole next to the bolt and not fully compressed gasket

Flossie · Jun 17, 2019

jamesmartin said:
good problem solving id expect the oil was from the oil gallery hole next to the bolt and not fully compressed gasket

Could have been the oil gallery hole indeed James, I did have a bit of oil around the head joint in that area too, without too much thought I just assumed it was wind blown from the water pump stud but gallery hole leakage fits better.
I'm surprised the head gasket lasted as long as it did really.

Water pump leaking oil..update

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