V8 Discovery will not start please help

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Hi all, thank you for looking at this page I would really appreciate any help with the problems I am having with my discovery.

A bit of background first. I have a 1995 Land rover Discovery 3.9 V8 injection with the hot wire system. We've had the car for around a year and it always started perfectly first time but had an overheating problem. We decided to do a gas conversion on it and since then it has never been right.

Initially it was fine but a large back fire happened and since then it has been very difficult to start, having to be turned over for a very long time before it starts and when it does start there is alot of smoke and can back fire. It also ran very unevenly and would tend to stall.

But now the problem has got really bad and won't start at all. We get the occasional cough from the engine but most of the time it just turns and nothing happens. There is a strong smell of fuel from the engine bay and the exhaust after turning over. We do have a spark, but my husband thought it looked weak so we have put a new coil on it. It has also recently had new dis cap, rotor arm, ht leads & radiator. We took a spark plug out and it was quite black and was wet with fuel. We have put the old dis cap and rotor arm back on to see if that made a difference but didn't. Have checked the position of the leads on the cap and traced them back to the plugs and they are right. This seems to have been a gradual deterioration and I am baffled about what it can be. There seems to be resistance across the wires in the air mass flow meter so I don't think they are broken and done some checks with the wiring but not alot, its hard to know where to start.

I think that about as much info as I can give, but I would really appreciate and ideas or help anyone can give me, I just want to drive it again :confused:
 
Hi all, thank you for looking at this page I would really appreciate any help with the problems I am having with my discovery.

A bit of background first. I have a 1995 Land rover Discovery 3.9 V8 injection with the hot wire system. We've had the car for around a year and it always started perfectly first time but had an overheating problem. We decided to do a gas conversion on it and since then it has never been right.

Initially it was fine but a large back fire happened and since then it has been very difficult to start, having to be turned over for a very long time before it starts and when it does start there is alot of smoke and can back fire. It also ran very unevenly and would tend to stall.

But now the problem has got really bad and won't start at all. We get the occasional cough from the engine but most of the time it just turns and nothing happens. There is a strong smell of fuel from the engine bay and the exhaust after turning over. We do have a spark, but my husband thought it looked weak so we have put a new coil on it. It has also recently had new dis cap, rotor arm, ht leads & radiator. We took a spark plug out and it was quite black and was wet with fuel. We have put the old dis cap and rotor arm back on to see if that made a difference but didn't. Have checked the position of the leads on the cap and traced them back to the plugs and they are right. This seems to have been a gradual deterioration and I am baffled about what it can be. There seems to be resistance across the wires in the air mass flow meter so I don't think they are broken and done some checks with the wiring but not alot, its hard to know where to start.

I think that about as much info as I can give, but I would really appreciate and ideas or help anyone can give me, I just want to drive it again :confused:


EEe Wimmin eh !:rolleyes:
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gluggythedisco

I think that about as much info as I can give, but I would really appreciate and ideas or help anyone can give me, I just want to drive it again

EEe Wimmin eh !

Well by God! That was a helpful technical anaysis of the lady's problem!

Stage one - turn off the gas - completely.

For all the bother that it is, take off the gas adapter. Basically you need to get it running on petrol first, and then worry about the gas.

Soaking wet spark plugs is too much fuel, which could happen if gas and petrol were going in at the same time. The gas can flow in so much that not enough AIR gets in for ignition to occur, and if she doesn't fire up smartish, and you keep winding her over and throwing in petrol, well, she's going to flood.

Take the 8 spark plugs out, and leave it for a day or overnight.
Clean the plugs carefully and warm them in the oven for a while.

Fit them warm.

Try again.

CharlesY
 
Hi CharlesY,
Thank you for your reply. its really good to know there are some nice people out there who want to help!
Last night we took the spark plugs out and cleaned them up and then warmed them up in the oven before putting them back in the disco. Disconnected the gas and tried it, but it is still exactly the same, not even a cough. We've also tried easy start with no results.
We are wondering about getting some on board diagnotic software and see if it flags up any error codes, do you know anything about this?
Apart from that we are still sctratching our heads
 
Hmmmm...... sounds like a real challenge that does.

First, NEVER EVER use an "easy start" ether spray again.
There is almost no doubt that it WILL damage your engine.

Did it try to fire at all on the ether spray? It should have tried if the ether vapour reached a cylinder.

Are you getting SPARKS at the plugs?

Where are you located?

CharlesY
 
My husband doesn't normally like to use Easy Start but thought it might be a way to prove the ignition system...not even a cough when using it:( Sprayed it through the AFM whilst cranking and also directly into a cylinder whilst a plug was out. Also tried it with the injector fuse removed to prevent possible overfuelling.

Yes, there is a spark at the plugs, whether there is one under compression we can't tell. Checked that the HT leads are on the correct terminals as it sounds like the spark isn't occuring at the right time, but they all are correct.

We are in North Wales, if anyone can get it started then they will be suitably rewarded with beer...:D
 
The whole point of ether spray is that it should light up with a Hell of a bang under compression only ... NO SPARK NEEDED .... and a very low compression should do it, as low as FIVE to one perhaps.

If that stuff is being sucked into a cylinder and getting compressed it should make a bang.

I don't want to upset you, but ..... are you sure the valves are opening and closing?

CharlesY
 
I had the same problem a few months ago.
Firstly, chuck the easy start away, it's better saved for old diesels :D

I read that you've changed the rotor arm, does it have a big "brass rivit" on the top ?
If so, put it in your hand & throw it away as far as you can !
They're fine when new, but made of inferior materials & tend to cause a short circuit in the distributor.
Buy a nice shiney new one from Lucas.
I have included a pic of the dodgy type for you to compare, notice the rivit.
 

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Big backfires on the gas system are likely to cause damage to the airflow meter and assosciated bits, and whilst a resistance may still exist across the terminals, it may well not be functioning as it should. BUT....... I don't think this should affect the ignition system as you describe. In 99.9% of Gas systems, the engine starts on petrol then turns over to gas when running. My experience of difficult starting progressing to no start/no firing atall has on both occasions been down to the famous LR immobiliser spider failing. Cranking the engine produces exactly what you describe.......... Visible but weak (Very) spark at the plug, loads of unburnt fuel in cylinders etc. but not a single firing stroke. If you have a screwdriver, a couple of spare hours and a fiver, its worth junking the spider and replacing it with the bypass unit from LR.
Back on the gas side of things, I guess you have a single point injection unit fitted as I had on my old Disco. Backfires and running problems finally resulted in junking the feedback unit and stepper motor out of the system, leaving only the emulators, regulator and the injector venturi unit piped in. No further problems, and no noticible detriment to performance or economy.
 
Mine certainly did. First time, main stealer confirmed spider fault and fixed, second time, I replaced spider with LR bypass kit. Each time, engine was cranking fine, but tiny spark on plug and no firing, each time spider was sorted, normality returned!
 
The spider sounds like a definate possibility as the spark doesn't look as strong as we would like. Would a 94 disco have the spider??? Or was it only later ones? (Ours has the larger headlights).

We haven't checked for compression yet, but there is suction, and the cranking speed drops when the plugs are in so there seems to be. Would have to be bad to lose compression on all 8!!!

The replacement rotor arm was the dodgy type - have now reverted back to the original as there was no obvious faults with it, just something that was cheap to try.

Do you think there is any possibility of the backfire blowing to the vacuum advance pipe and altering the timing? That would explain things perhaps.

Will try the spider, we can check for dry joints and plug the bypass in as the alarm does not work anyway. Thanks to all for their help, we will let you know if we get it sorted. If not, someone pass us the matches...
 
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
Well, finally got it started this evening! Moral of the story is: never assume a brand new genuine part isn't faulty...

The new king lead was at fault, replaced it with a spare, which is slightly too short and it fired up instantly. It turns out that although there was a spark on a bare plug, there wasn't one when the plugs were in the cylinders. The giveaway was when my husband put the strobe light on to check the timing, and got no flash unless connected to a bare plug.

Glugluglugluglugluglugluglugluglugluglugluglugluglug!!!
 
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