V8 camshaft

Our 1995 3.9 Discovery seems a down on power, so I'm thinking of rebuilding
the engine. If I change the camshaft whats best to go for? A standard cam or
a 'mild' road cam or other? Its only used on road and very rarely for
towing. I have put a mild cam in our 90 V8 but its hard to tell the
differance as the engine was worn beforehand.
Thanks
Richard

Just had a price for doing mine £500 plus the dreaded VAT - does this sound
OK? Been in touch with RPI who said that if I do the top end now the bottom
end will need doing soon, how much would that be ?

Cheers,




"Richard" <richardsemail [email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Our 1995 3.9 Discovery seems a down on power, so I'm thinking of
> rebuilding the engine. If I change the camshaft whats best to go for? A
> standard cam or a 'mild' road cam or other? Its only used on road and very
> rarely for towing. I have put a mild cam in our 90 V8 but its hard to tell
> the differance as the engine was worn beforehand.
> Thanks
> Richard
>
>
>

StaffBull,
What are you going to have done to yours? What did RPi quote you for ?
Richard

"StaffBull" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Just had a price for doing mine £500 plus the dreaded VAT - does this
> sound OK? Been in touch with RPI who said that if I do the top end now
> the bottom end will need doing soon, how much would that be ?
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
>
> "Richard" <richardsemail [email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Our 1995 3.9 Discovery seems a down on power, so I'm thinking of
>> rebuilding the engine. If I change the camshaft whats best to go for? A
>> standard cam or a 'mild' road cam or other? Its only used on road and
>> very rarely for towing. I have put a mild cam in our 90 V8 but its hard
>> to tell the differance as the engine was worn beforehand.
>> Thanks
>> Richard
>>
>>
>>
>
>

"StaffBull" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Just had a price for doing mine £500 plus the dreaded VAT - does this
> sound OK?

If that includes ALL parts and fluids, then it's fairly ok.

> Been in touch with RPI who said that if I do the top end now the bottom
> end will need doing soon, how much would that be ?

Well, they would wouldn't they? They simply want you to spend even more
money with them, to maximise their profit. I've stripped plenty of rover v8
engines that have done around 80,000miles and found totally knackered cams
and followers, whereas the rest of the engine has been pretty much ok. It
all depends on the general condition, how it's maintained and treated.

>
> > "Richard" <richardsemail [email protected]> wrote in
> > message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Our 1995 3.9 Discovery seems a down on power, so I'm thinking of
>> rebuilding the engine. If I change the camshaft whats best to go for? A
>> standard cam or a 'mild' road cam or other? Its only used on road and
>> very rarely for towing. I have put a mild cam in our 90 V8 but its hard
>> to tell the differance as the engine was worn beforehand.
>> Thanks
>> Richard
>>

Personally, I'd plump for a Real Steel Viper Cyclone, that cam is designed
specifically for the 3.9EFI engines (including automatics, that otherwise
have serious stalling when selecting gear issues when you fit a different
cam) and with no other mods will give about a 10% increase in torque across
the board with about an extra 15bhp at the top end. I've used it in a few
engines now and it "does what it says on the tin"! It works really well in
conjunction with a rising rate adjustable fuel pressure regulator to iron
out any slight flat spots due to the std lean fuellng.
A lot of cams make serious claims re. power gains, but you really need to
consider that in a landrover product you need torque, not necessarily power.
Most fast-road cams will give an extra 20bhp or so, but about 500rpm higher
than the std peak power rpm, with less power than std below around 3500rpm.
Great in a 2-seater roadster but rubbish in a rangie etc unless you drive at
the redline permanently.
Stick with the cam quoted above, or an equivalent such as RPI's RP4 cam.
Just don't be taken in by rpi's bullsh!7.
Be wary of claims about even mild-road cams such as Crane H-204, Piper
270/110, Oselli RV8255 (an excellent cam grind for landy's) as they were all
designed for carburettor engines and the EFI systems will not simply
compensate to the extent required.
Make sure you check the lifter preload and shim as required for best
results.
Badger,
B.H.Engineering,
Rover V8 engine specialists.
www.bhengineering.co.uk
www.roverv8engines.com

Badger,
Our 3.9 Discovery has done 71,000 miles but seems down on power. Its used
mainly on short journeys. How do I tell if the cam is knackered?
I did a compression check last year and that seemed ok (cant remember the
figures).
Is the only way to compare a new cam with the old ?
Richard

"Badger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "StaffBull" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Just had a price for doing mine £500 plus the dreaded VAT - does this
>> sound OK?
>
> If that includes ALL parts and fluids, then it's fairly ok.
>
>> Been in touch with RPI who said that if I do the top end now the bottom
>> end will need doing soon, how much would that be ?
>
> Well, they would wouldn't they? They simply want you to spend even more
> money with them, to maximise their profit. I've stripped plenty of rover
> v8 engines that have done around 80,000miles and found totally knackered
> cams and followers, whereas the rest of the engine has been pretty much
> ok. It all depends on the general condition, how it's maintained and
> treated.
>
>>
>> > "Richard" <richardsemail [email protected]> wrote in
>> > message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Our 1995 3.9 Discovery seems a down on power, so I'm thinking of
>>> rebuilding the engine. If I change the camshaft whats best to go for? A
>>> standard cam or a 'mild' road cam or other? Its only used on road and
>>> very rarely for towing. I have put a mild cam in our 90 V8 but its hard
>>> to tell the differance as the engine was worn beforehand.
>>> Thanks
>>> Richard
>>>
>
> Personally, I'd plump for a Real Steel Viper Cyclone, that cam is designed
> specifically for the 3.9EFI engines (including automatics, that otherwise
> have serious stalling when selecting gear issues when you fit a different
> cam) and with no other mods will give about a 10% increase in torque
> across the board with about an extra 15bhp at the top end. I've used it in
> a few engines now and it "does what it says on the tin"! It works really
> well in conjunction with a rising rate adjustable fuel pressure regulator
> to iron out any slight flat spots due to the std lean fuellng.
> A lot of cams make serious claims re. power gains, but you really need to
> consider that in a landrover product you need torque, not necessarily
> power. Most fast-road cams will give an extra 20bhp or so, but about
> 500rpm higher than the std peak power rpm, with less power than std below
> around 3500rpm. Great in a 2-seater roadster but rubbish in a rangie etc
> unless you drive at the redline permanently.
> Stick with the cam quoted above, or an equivalent such as RPI's RP4 cam.
> Just don't be taken in by rpi's bullsh!7.
> Be wary of claims about even mild-road cams such as Crane H-204, Piper
> 270/110, Oselli RV8255 (an excellent cam grind for landy's) as they were
> all designed for carburettor engines and the EFI systems will not simply
> compensate to the extent required.
> Make sure you check the lifter preload and shim as required for best
> results.
> Badger,
> B.H.Engineering,
> Rover V8 engine specialists.
> www.bhengineering.co.uk
> www.roverv8engines.com
>
>

Mines done 109K - I would expect a 71K engine should be OK if it's had
regular service on good oil, please don't treat me as an expert though I am
merely soaking up as much info as possible from as many sources as I can.
And I've got a mate who's spent nearly £30k on doing his 110 up (5litre RPI
tuned lump!)
At 109K I reckon mines tired - full service history though, definite
difference on running LPG on it especially on hills but I'd expect around
15 -20% loss on LPG that's why I'm thinking of a hiclone to see if I can get
some more fuel burnt for my buck!
An RPI 3.9 would be around £3500 - I reckon I can sustain my engine for a
long time on that, and I only paid £4300 for the car, I think the guy who
sold it saw too many bills coming - the front drivers wheel arch was almost
rubbing on the tyre, this turned out to be a blown shocker, a 2" suspension
lift all round sorted this.Also the ABS light was intermittently coming on
turns out it was covered in oil as the swivel seals were leaking oil
everywhere ABS now OK. It's also blown one of the cats so I am looking to
knock out the innards to solve this.
So far £4300 for the car £700 for the Lift kit and a full service, if I
spend a grand on the engine I don't mind as I'll have a car that I know is
done right.

Well that's the theory anyway!!



"Richard" <richardsemail [email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Badger,
> Our 3.9 Discovery has done 71,000 miles but seems down on power. Its used
> mainly on short journeys. How do I tell if the cam is knackered?
> I did a compression check last year and that seemed ok (cant remember the
> figures).
> Is the only way to compare a new cam with the old ?
> Richard
>
> "Badger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "StaffBull" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> Just had a price for doing mine £500 plus the dreaded VAT - does this
>>> sound OK?
>>
>> If that includes ALL parts and fluids, then it's fairly ok.
>>
>>> Been in touch with RPI who said that if I do the top end now the bottom
>>> end will need doing soon, how much would that be ?
>>
>> Well, they would wouldn't they? They simply want you to spend even more
>> money with them, to maximise their profit. I've stripped plenty of rover
>> v8 engines that have done around 80,000miles and found totally knackered
>> cams and followers, whereas the rest of the engine has been pretty much
>> ok. It all depends on the general condition, how it's maintained and
>> treated.
>>
>>>
>>> > "Richard" <richardsemail [email protected]> wrote in
>>> > message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> Our 1995 3.9 Discovery seems a down on power, so I'm thinking of
>>>> rebuilding the engine. If I change the camshaft whats best to go for? A
>>>> standard cam or a 'mild' road cam or other? Its only used on road and
>>>> very rarely for towing. I have put a mild cam in our 90 V8 but its hard
>>>> to tell the differance as the engine was worn beforehand.
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Richard
>>>>
>>
>> Personally, I'd plump for a Real Steel Viper Cyclone, that cam is
>> designed specifically for the 3.9EFI engines (including automatics, that
>> otherwise have serious stalling when selecting gear issues when you fit a
>> different cam) and with no other mods will give about a 10% increase in
>> torque across the board with about an extra 15bhp at the top end. I've
>> used it in a few engines now and it "does what it says on the tin"! It
>> works really well in conjunction with a rising rate adjustable fuel
>> pressure regulator to iron out any slight flat spots due to the std lean
>> fuellng.
>> A lot of cams make serious claims re. power gains, but you really need to
>> consider that in a landrover product you need torque, not necessarily
>> power. Most fast-road cams will give an extra 20bhp or so, but about
>> 500rpm higher than the std peak power rpm, with less power than std below
>> around 3500rpm. Great in a 2-seater roadster but rubbish in a rangie etc
>> unless you drive at the redline permanently.
>> Stick with the cam quoted above, or an equivalent such as RPI's RP4 cam.
>> Just don't be taken in by rpi's bullsh!7.
>> Be wary of claims about even mild-road cams such as Crane H-204, Piper
>> 270/110, Oselli RV8255 (an excellent cam grind for landy's) as they were
>> all designed for carburettor engines and the EFI systems will not simply
>> compensate to the extent required.
>> Make sure you check the lifter preload and shim as required for best
>> results.
>> Badger,
>> B.H.Engineering,
>> Rover V8 engine specialists.
>> www.bhengineering.co.uk
>> www.roverv8engines.com
>>
>>
>
>

"Richard" <richardsemail [email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Badger,
> Our 3.9 Discovery has done 71,000 miles but seems down on power. Its used
> mainly on short journeys. How do I tell if the cam is knackered?
> I did a compression check last year and that seemed ok (cant remember the
> figures).
> Is the only way to compare a new cam with the old ?
> Richard
>
>
You can remove the rocker covers and monitor the valve lift for each rocker
as you rotate the engine using a socket on the front pulley, that will show
up the glaringly obvious typical worn cam - one or two rockers hardly moving
at all. Do it after running the engine for a few minutes to ensure the
lifters are all fully primed up though, not first thing in the day after its
stood all night as some of the lifters may have partially drained. (It's
nicer working on a warm engine this weather as well!).
Badger,
B.H.Engineering,
Rover V8 engine specialists.
www.bhengineering.co.uk
www.roverv8engines.com

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:46:52 -0000, "StaffBull"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Just had a price for doing mine £500 plus the dreaded VAT - does this sound
>OK? Been in touch with RPI who said that if I do the top end now the bottom
>end will need doing soon, how much would that be ?
>

Warren did mine for just over half that. It all depends what you pay
for labour.

I used a standard 3.9 cam on a 130K engine which was otherwise in OK
order. The difference was remarkable, although mostly at the top end.
All the rattles were gone and I gained about 300-400 rpm at the top
end and a much cleaner power delivery. It ran much better on both
petrol and LPG.

There's various ways of doing it - engine in situ requires removing
the radiator and the air con, so if you do it that way you need to
budget for a regas of the air con (which probably won't be a bad idea
anyway).


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com

On or around Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:04:26 +0000 (UTC), "Badger"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Well, they would wouldn't they? They simply want you to spend even more
>money with them, to maximise their profit. I've stripped plenty of rover v8
>engines that have done around 80,000miles and found totally knackered cams
>and followers, whereas the rest of the engine has been pretty much ok. It
>all depends on the general condition, how it's maintained and treated.

The old ones I've stripped show similar - Bottom end looks OK, cams and top
end wear galore.

first thing to do is pull the inlet manifold and valley gasket and look at
the cam. You'll soon see if it looks worn.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Beyond the horizon of the place we lived when we were young / In a world
of magnets and miracles / Our thoughts strayed constantly and without
boundary / The ringing of the Division bell had begun. Pink Floyd (1994)

Assuming the cam is knackered what is best to use. A standard cam or a
'mild' road cam or other? On RPi's site they have a cam that it says is
suited to autos, is this anygood or bull? Its only used on road and very
rarely for towing. I have put a mild cam in our 90 V8 but its hard to tell
the differance as the engine was worn beforehand.
Richard

"Badger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Richard" <richardsemail [email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Badger,
>> Our 3.9 Discovery has done 71,000 miles but seems down on power. Its used
>> mainly on short journeys. How do I tell if the cam is knackered?
>> I did a compression check last year and that seemed ok (cant remember the
>> figures).
>> Is the only way to compare a new cam with the old ?
>> Richard
>>
>>
> You can remove the rocker covers and monitor the valve lift for each
> rocker
> as you rotate the engine using a socket on the front pulley, that will
> show
> up the glaringly obvious typical worn cam - one or two rockers hardly
> moving
> at all. Do it after running the engine for a few minutes to ensure the
> lifters are all fully primed up though, not first thing in the day after
> its
> stood all night as some of the lifters may have partially drained. (It's
> nicer working on a warm engine this weather as well!).
> Badger,
> B.H.Engineering,
> Rover V8 engine specialists.
> www.bhengineering.co.uk
> www.roverv8engines.com
>
>

The engine can stay in as the air con does not work, so a new dryer and
ragas is on the cards before summer
"Tim Hobbs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:46:52 -0000, "StaffBull"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>Just had a price for doing mine £500 plus the dreaded VAT - does this
>>sound
>>OK? Been in touch with RPI who said that if I do the top end now the
>>bottom
>>end will need doing soon, how much would that be ?
>>
>
> Warren did mine for just over half that. It all depends what you pay
> for labour.
>
> I used a standard 3.9 cam on a 130K engine which was otherwise in OK
> order. The difference was remarkable, although mostly at the top end.
> All the rattles were gone and I gained about 300-400 rpm at the top
> end and a much cleaner power delivery. It ran much better on both
> petrol and LPG.
>
> There's various ways of doing it - engine in situ requires removing
> the radiator and the air con, so if you do it that way you need to
> budget for a regas of the air con (which probably won't be a bad idea
> anyway).
>
>
> --
>
> Tim Hobbs
>
> '58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
> '77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
> '03 Volvo V70
>
> My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
> Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
> Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com