Upgrading from a Freelander to a Vogue - Some Questions

Hi.

I went and test drove a 58 plate Vogue SE last week and fell in love with it. Obviously made my Freelander feel like an old dog. I liked all the little toys on it such as reversing camera, 4x4 stats on the screen including the wheel alignment and the nice cooled blowing air leather seats. I'm not in the market for such a new model for my First Range Rover and I'm looking at getting an older model. I know in 2005 they upgraded the interior and sat nav, but I'm looking at 2003-2004 models. I have a few questions.

The older sat nav etc. Does it have the trip computer with MPG etc on it, and are the TV's freeview digital or analogue? Also anyone know what else is missing compared to the new system?

Why do some of the models I'm looking at not have any screen in the front. Was this the very first of the new shape Range Rovers, or was it an extra at first to have sat nav?

How is the 3.0 TD6? The one I tested was a 3.6TDv8 with the 6 speed gearbox, how does the older TD6 with 5 speed compare?

Should I be looking out for anything in particular when buying? I've been told to check the air suspension and make sure it isn't on the bump stops and to listen for grinding/whining in the drivetrain, anything else that may be costly?

Are there any other major differences between the pre and post 2005 models that would affect your own purchases?

Sorry for all the questions, it's a big deal moving from the Freelander to this luxury monster of a 4x4.

john

Hi mate, the reson the one you looked at didn't have the screen is because it would have been the HSE version, if you like all the toys etc.. You need to go for the Vogue spec, the HSE spec if the base spec without any toys etc.. The TD6 is renowned for not having enough power, before I bought my rangie earlier this year I test drove the TD6 and the 4.4 V8 and they are completely different car, hence I went for the petrol V8 when you put your foot down in the Td6 it felt to me like there was no power there, also the gearbox in the TD6 version is a GM unit which is well know for breaking for the fun of it without any reason, where the V8 version has the much better ZF unit. If you check out my blog website, www.myrangerover.co.uk there is a long check list of things that you need to check before you purchase, these are much more complex vehicles than a freelander and a lot more expensive to repair when things go wrong. All pre 2005 range rovers are based on the BMW design from the entertainment system to the engine and drivetrain. Post 2005 the vehicle is based on jaguar equipment. The entertainemt on the pre 2005 is just that an entertainment system, it does not have the 4x4 stats etc.. But does have the full trip computer. If you get a pre 2005 it will more than likely come with the old BMW MK3 sat nav unit (you can tell if you have this if the screen on the dash has a basic gray user interface) you can upgrade this system to the much better BMW MK4 sat nav unit which has a much better user interface and allows you to use the latest 2010 BMW maps for the gps system. You can also upgrade the radio module to allow you to connect an AUX input for you iPod or mp3 player etc... The actual interior of the range rover didn't completely change to the current spec until 2007 when Ford changed from the BMW design.

If you want any more info let me know

Matt

Jodsclass said:

Hi.

I went and test drove a 58 plate Vogue SE last week and fell in love with it. Obviously made my Freelander feel like an old dog. I liked all the little toys on it such as reversing camera (no), 4x4 stats on the screen (no)including the wheel alignment and the nice cooled blowing air (heated only leather seats. I'm not in the market for such a new model for my First Range Rover and I'm looking at getting an older model. I know in 2005 they upgraded the interior and sat nav, but I'm looking at 2003-2004 models. I have a few questions.

The older sat nav (not as good, I think no post code entry) etc. Does it have the trip computer with MPG etc on it (yes), and are the TV's freeview digital or analogue (but see other posts about a digital converter)? Also anyone know what else is missing compared to the new system (terrain response, but it still had HDC, TC etc)?

Why do some of the models I'm looking at not have any screen in the front. Was this the very first of the new shape Range Rovers, or was it an extra at first to have sat nav?

How is the 3.0 TD6? The one I tested was a 3.6TDv8 with the 6 speed gearbox, how does the older TD6 with 5 speed compare (compared with the TDV6 it is crude & agricultural and no where near as quick, but in it's day was a nice smooth refined diesel)?

Should I be looking out for anything in particular when buying? I've been told to check the air suspension and make sure it isn't on the bump stops and to listen for grinding/whining in the drivetrain, anything else that may be costly?

Are there any other major differences between the pre and post 2005 models that would affect your own purchases?

Sorry for all the questions, it's a big deal moving from the Freelander to this luxury monster of a 4x4.

john

Click to expand...

Despite my comments above, I still have a soft spot for the TD6, and would be quite happy to own one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodsclass

"The older sat nav (not as good, I think no post code entry) etc. "

If you upgrade to the BMW MK4 satnav you get the much better user interface and navigation system with full postcode search.

Matt

Hi Matt.

Thanks for the detailed response. What kind of MPG do you get from the petrol on motorway runs? The car will mostly be used on the weekend for driving from Cornwall to Manchester or Manchester to Dundee (have family up and down the country) so will mostly be long motorway runs which is why we want the added comfort (but need a 4x4 for the Scottish winters).

Also, any idea what the 2005 model would go for on average used? I can see the 2003-2004 can go from anything between £10 and £20k depending on mileage.

I guess a good compromise would be an LPG converted petrol model, glad I asked now, you just don't get this caliber of advice from people trying to sell their cars. IS the diesel that bad? or just bad when compared to the grunt of the petrol?

Thanks Matt

John

Thanks Davec for the responses. I guess I'll have to track down some used ones at dealers and test them out. The TDV8 was a beautiful engine but I can't warrant spending so much money on my first Range Rover. I'll try the TD6 and the 4.4 petrol and see which one feels better.

Matt.

Just been looking at your site. Your car looks stunning for a 2003 model. Can I be cheeky and ask how much you paid for the car pre your upgrades? and what was the purchase mileage

John

Hi John

I cant offer you much info, as I have only owned my 2003 Vogue 4.4 for 24 hours, but I did have a Diesel model prior to this one, and the difference is just mind blowing !

The lack of power was always a problem when trying to get onto a roundabout in heavy traffic, and roads with slight inclines inevitably resulted in a stream of traffic behind me, as it took so long to get her up to speed.

I have in my car the old entertainment system, sat nav etc that Matt spoke about, and yes price allowing, I will upgrade the system, but at the moment I feel like a Queen driving this car, and I mean the regal kind...

I had a Ford Explorer for around 3 years, and that was a fabulous, reliable vehicle, but its fuel consumption was poor, still, I put up with it, as I enjoyed the comfort, especially so as Im disabled, and vehicles with higher access are much easier for me.

I never dreamt that there could be a vehicle out there that could give me all of that, and in such luxury.

This forum has been a huge help to me, and because of them, I had no fear of buying another Rangie.

I know I havent answered your questions John, I just wanted to add some support to you over your choice of car.

Jodsclass said:

Matt.

Just been looking at your site. Your car looks stunning for a 2003 model. Can I be cheeky and ask how much you paid for the car pre your upgrades? and what was the purchase mileage

John

Click to expand...

Sure not a problem John, I got it with the 2006 facelift already done by the previous owner and i paid £17000 for it with 54000 miles on the clock with full service history and got loads of stuff done by the dealer before i purchased. Its the 4.4 V8 so on a long run on a motorway the trip computer reports between 25-30mpg @ 50mph. The V8 really suffers when you accelerate hard and around town i get between 14-21mpg. Did you check the checklist out on my site, have just updated with some more things to look out for. I see you mention going up to scotland in winter, if you are going to be going up steep roads you are more than likely going to be better with the V8 as the TD6 some say it struggles to get up and go. When i got mine, i spend around £1000 doing all the entertainment/sat nav upgrades. They are really great cars and mine is the best car i have ever owned even though it does have its own problems lol when you test drive the V8 over the TD6 you will see what im talking about lol

Matt

John,
Think matt has answered most of your questions etc. I got the V8 and got it converted to LPG. Best thing I have done since buying the car. I'm now laughing when I fill it up. Instead of a £120 bill for fuel I think my max was £42 an that was expensive gas. I used the RR a few weeks back to visit my sister inlaw down in Somerset. The rr swallowed all mine and the wife's gear plus all the baby's stuff (8 months so ALOT of gear) plus the dog, and driving nicely on the motoway 70 all the way after I had done the maths got somewhere between 32-37mpg depending on the price of gas.
Hope that helps
Rob

Thanks guys, a friendly bunch over here in the Range Rover threads. You have both tempted me into the petrol route now, the LPG would be a definite plus for me, and is really easy to get hold of up north. Any problems with the petrol engines with regards head gasket failures etc?

Now all I've got to do is go and find that diamond in the rough. Matt I was looking at spending around £17k so you kind of confirmed my budget is on the mark. Been reading through your checklist on the website, terrific stuff, have printed it off to take with me to dealers.

With regards the sat nav upgrades, how difficult of a job was that to do? do the wiring looms/connectors need modifying or are there adaptors for the sorta things? The new sat nav system was excellent so the upgrade would be a good way for me to get the system I want in a car I want.

John

Hi John,

Matt answered me when I asked the same question regarding the upgrade HERE Post 5.

Im going to have a go..

Jodsclass,

As already alluded to to some degree, there were quite a few changes between 2005-2006, with completely different engines and transmissions in them. The interiors are largely the same, but some of the other toys mentioned are also missing off the earlier models, such as the reverse cameras - on the 02-05 models they only have parking sensors for example. Otherwise I think matt and his site pretty much covered all the main things to look out for.

One thing reference satnav, the unit you talk about from the 06 car isn't the same as Matt is talking about - he upgraded his with the BMW Mk4 (basically from an X5), the one in the 06 RR is different (although the net outcome may be similar)

As I'm sure you've seen in the classified ads there is a fairly hefty jump in price between a 2005 and a 2006 with the same sort of milage.

I've got a 4.4 V8 '53 plate and its great, but uber thirsty. Yes, you might be able to get 25Mpg on a motorway if you do 50mph like Matt says, but who the hell drives that slow? Going 70-80mph you are going to get 20mpg flat if you stay at constant speed. If you are going to be driving the distances you say then I cannot stress how much of a hit refilling these beasts is going to be for you! Also beware servicing costs, spares for these tend to be more than LR's lesser models.

Anyway, get rid of the freelander, horrible little things and get a RR, join the club.

(p.s 30mpg? Matt, you must live on one big downslope or somewhere without air resistance as I have NEVER managed to get anywhere close to this figure, even driving very carefully and at slower speeds.)

John
With regards to your LPG and head gasket failures there are people who say the LPG causes it etc and others who don't. From my experience the LPG does make the car run hotter so if there is a weekness in the engine then the LPG might help to make it worse. The guy I used for my conversion gave me loads of help and he said the 4.4 BMW engine is bullet proof an loves gas. Many engines need a flash lub system to keep the valves lubed as the LPG offers no lub properties, but our engines don't need it thanks to the quality of the engines. From looking round there are alot of different systems out there and lots different qualities. A good installer can make a cheaper system just as good, as a poor installer can make a top end system absolute crap. This is the reason I went with my guy and also the reason I went for such a thirsty V8 and not having to worry about planning my routes between filling stations.

Thanks guys, lots of great responses. On a good run I'm only getting 32mpg out of the Freelander TD4 auto so 20 isn't too bad in the much bigger and more refined RR. I can't wait to join the club, trust me. I'll buy the RR petrol first and see how I get on fuel wise, I can always do the LPG conversion at a later date, not to mention the fact that the petrol models are a couple of grand cheaper than the diesels on used forecourts (so the money saved can go towards the conversion if needs be).

My wife & I have very few vices, not drinkers, don't smoke and would rather watch a DVD than forking out a fortune for the cinema, so spending extra on petrol is one of our only luxuries. We also work from home so the car tends to sit on the drive all week and gets taken out at the weekend.

Thanks for all your advice, much appreciated. I will read the stuff about the sat nav upgrade & keep consulting Matt's website. Anymore questions I have I'll be sure to ask you helpful folks

If you are after an LPG then try and get one with it already done - they sell for pretty much exactly the same price as ones without if you can find them. Have a trawl through autotrader or pistonheads.co.uk, plenty on those sites.

Otherwise you are looking at sinking £2k later on to get converted, which you won't recover on resale.

As Voguely said try and get on already converted. You won't sell the RR for an extra 2k but if you own the car long enough the LPG will pay for it's self. With the mileage I do mine should be paid for in just over 12months. There are calculators online that will give you an idea how long it will take you to recover the cost. Give them a try as might not be worth it for you.

I bought a 2002 4.4 Vogue with LPG conversion about 4 weeks ago. Fuel cost on LPG is about 18p per mile in general use and 15p per mile on a long run at around 70mph. I found working out the mpg depressing after selling an X Type diesel. Consumption will be 10-20% higher using LPG as it has (I am told) a lower calorific value than petrol.

PH

I dont know if this info will help or not, but I paid £13,000, all but a £1, for an 03 with 91,000 on the clock.

Prices seem to vary greatly. At the same garage I bought mine from was an 02 plate with 79,000 on the clock, but it was £16,599 and the only reason I could see was that it had Overfinch wheels on it, and chrome bits and bobs.

philh how much did you pay for it with the LPG conversion already done? Petbe that sounds like a very reasonable price, prices seem to fluctuate a lot on autotrader/ebay etc and I guess they will only increase as we get into winter and people are after 4x4's again.

I'm thinking of going to see this one and see how it drives, for that price I might just do the LPG conversion post sale.

2005 54 Reg RANGE ROVER 4.4 V8 VOGUE SE