Update on my EAS problem, urgent help required now please

Hi everybody.
This is an update on my problem with my EAS which I wrote a thread about earlier this week & Thank you all for your replies.
Brief history, Last week my P38 2.5 DSE went in to an independant Land Rover speacialist for a full service & 2 new rear air springs. The service was all done and the rear springa and the EAS worked perfect like it always had. The garage reported back to me I had a worn front n/s air bag and offered to do the job in which I gave them the go ahead to do the repair last Friday.
upon collection last friday on my way home the front seemed to sink and compressor running every 15 seconds, car returned on monday to garage and system re-calibrated, collected on Tue same fault with compressor now over heating. Returned on Wed for further inspection with suspect height sensors, both changed today and fault still there with compressor running every 15 seconds and over heating. The suspension is now too high on front and rear when set on normal ride height, diagnostics show no fault but it looks like its set on extended ride height. Garage tried to charge me £130 for 2 new sensors inc labour but could not cure the problem and insisted I took the car. I refused as it was dangerous at that height and compressor still running. I told them to cure the fault as it was n ot there before they changed front air spring but they refused until I pay for height sensors fitted today which by the looks I did not need. I then told them that I will not collect the car and they refused to do any further investigation work I left with the words see you in court I will contact trading standards and the vehicle inspectorate. Anyone know where I stand and my rights. This cars suspension was fine when it went into the garage except the leaking rear springs which were fixed and the suspension was then working perfect. Now they have changed the front n/s air spring the suspension has gone all wrong. There are no leaks on the system they are now saying it could be the compressor but it was fine until they messed up the front air spring. I really dont know what to do all I know is this garage has had in excess of £1000 from me for the full service inc parts and the renew of 3 air springs. Help!! what are my rights I have left the car there on top that of that they left me with no courtesy car and made me walk 3 miles in the pitch black down narrow country lanes.
I will name the garage it;s CARMAN COUNTRY VEHICLES, LAND ROVER SPECIALIST, ULCOMBE KENT.

Sounds like you are at a bit of a stand off now with the garage. I don't know about the links to the repairs you had and the troubles you have now but with regards to the situation you are now in - i would pay their bill and ask for a full receipt listing all work done, also ask for the parts they have taken off your vehicle and get your car back. i would then look to have the car independently tested by a main dealer and go from there.

That's just me though, i would want the car back and then you control the situation rather than them. Arm yourself with a solid independent report.

Groans
link in my signature will help

Goodfella said:

Sounds like you are at a bit of a stand off now with the garage. I don't know about the links to the repairs you had and the troubles you have now but with regards to the situation you are now in - i would pay their bill and ask for a full receipt listing all work done, also ask for the parts they have taken off your vehicle and get your car back. i would then look to have the car independently tested by a main dealer and go from there.

That's just me though, i would want the car back and then you control the situation rather than them. Arm yourself with a solid independent report.

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Good advice; pay their bill and get it back with detailed invoice, INSIST on taking replaced parts with you and then go straight to another source, doesn't need to be a L/R dealer, so long as a recognised garage....(vat registered).
Do call local trading standards as they will give un-biased advice, but from that which you have said I would suggest you have a damn good case!

I would suggest you have a good chat with trading standards as they will be able to give you the proper wording.

Basically the garage have a duty of care to look after your vehicle whilst it is in their possesion. If they damage any part of the vehicle, they are resposible for its repair. Many garages will try to bully you buy refusing to do work or refuse to let you have your vehicle until it is paid for, best option is to insist they fix the fault and not back down. They also have to fix the problem within a reasonable time. If they do not do this you can have another garage fix the problem at the original garages cost.

I would start documenting times, dates, conversations, what work has been carried out as if you need to take legal action, the notes will be invaluable in ensuring you don't forget anything.

Hope this helps

oh, and read Fanny's link / send a pm!

I would suspect the valve block as the cause of your original troubles, a real easy job to do yourself. It also seams they have fitted new sensors without callibrating them.
Pay the bill, and get a detailed breakdown of what they have done and get all your old parts back for testing. We will talk you through the simple tests on the hight sensors.

Good call rewmer!

Goodfella said:

. i would then look to have the car independently tested by a main dealer and go from there.

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Don't go near a main dealer unless you want to be ripped off even more! Most of them don't even know what a P38 is, let alone know how to fix one.

I would suggest that you pay the bill, otherwise the garage are entitled in law to retain posession of it until the bill for services rendered has been paid, or to dispose of the vehicle for reasonable value (after a reasonable period of time) in order to secure their charges. After disposing of the vehicle, the garage are entitled to make further deductions from the monies received to compensate them for their costs related to the disposal.

In other words - go get your car, at least then you have possiession of it.

When you collect the car, bring with you a letter asking for a full breakdown of all repairs, parts, hours charged and other costs. Be polite, and head your letter in bold - Without Prejudice. Also ask for the prompt surrender of all parts removed from your vehicle during the course of repairs to the suspension although this is a grey area regarding to whom these now belong having been removed from your vehicle.

The letter should detail in full the condition and operation of the suspension before repairs and the symptoms that are now evident.

Close the letter by saying that unless the car is repaired to your satisfaction (and that of an independent vehicle engineer should they wish) you will begin legal proceedings.

In the meantime contact Trading Standards (vehicle not adeqautely repaired) and VOSA to see what they say.

One problem in taking the vehicle from their premises, as soon as you drive it away it could be taken as a tacit acceptance on your part regarding the roadworthiness of the vehicle, post repair. Clearly, you believe the suspension ride-height to be an issue so you may want to consider having the car removed on a trailer/lift.

You may also want to consider taking the car to a stealer on the basis that obviously there is a fault and can they determine the cause of the problem and give you a written quotation for repairs. Alternatively you may want to have the car MOT'd by a govt testing centre and let them detail the causes of failure to to inoperation of the suspension.

You may want to look up the recent thread by a chap called Jay - similar minefield of sorts to your own, though plenty of good avice contributed along the way.

Good Luck

I wouldn't write "Without Prejudice" on any letter at this point in time; in doing so your letter infers it does not pre-judge any possible legal proceedings at a later date, and therefore is inadmissable in court, should the matter go that far.
Yes, write as kieronf suggests, and DO pay their bill DO get the parts back -having paid for the work, any parts removed remain your property.

Some very good advice on here already, and if not already done so, do PM Fanatic.....he'll help further if needs be.

Good Luck!!

Update No2 Re: EAS problem.
Firstly may I say a bigh thank you to you all for your kind help & assistance in this matter.
I received an email from the garage today who apologised to me for the un-diagnosed problem Re: my EAS fault.
They have dropped all the charges for the work that was done yesterday for fitting the 2 new height sensors and have since had another look at the EAS system and report the following problem to me.
1 The air suspension has no leaks
2 The system will be re-calibrated this weekend.
3 On start up of the engine the system starts to charge with air and compressor stops working as soon as system is charged.
4 At present the front suspension is raising too hight causing concern.
5 They now suspect this could be caused by a leak in the valve block?
6 There could also be a fault on the driver pack.
The garage informed me that this fault could have been present prior to them fitting the front air bag and there may have been a leak in the valve block but due to a leaky air bag the air loss may have been diverted through the air bag. They also inform me that now all the air bags are new and no leaks their may be a possibilty that air is exhausting from one of the valves.
There is also still the sympton of the compressor still starting every 15 seconds approx it seems like it thinks the system needs air when it does not, this is causing the compressor to over heat.
The fromt suspension set on normal ride height is far too hight it looks like it is running on high mode + about 4 inches.
since the new height sensors have been fitted the front seems to have stopped dancing or sinking.
They are doing more diagnostic work tomorrow.
I am just hoping they can come up with the answer to this problem.
I am also wondering igf there is a fault with the valve block is this repairable or the driver pack.
After my email to the garage they did reply with a sympathetic email apologising. I was gonna post the email on here but was not sure if it is allowed. If it is please let me know and I will do it as it may be able to explain things better than I have.

Hi,

I too have been a victim of garages (including the Main Dealer) incompetence at resolving EAS problems and I have learnt a fair bit about the EAS as a result.

Having read these posts I think you will find that all that is needed to resolve this issue it to have the EAS calibrated correctly. With your sensors being out of sync they are telling the system the vehicle is skew and need air to correct the problem, hence the pump starting.

The Compressor and Valve block leaking my well be a possibility but doubtful unless they leaks have been caused by the garage's installation.

Ask the garage to do a proper calibration on the car, if they can't then using RSW Solutions EAS Software and a level bit of ground you can do it yourself, I did!

anorakmark said:

Update No2 Re: EAS problem.
Firstly may I say a bigh thank you to you all for your kind help & assistance in this matter.
I received an email from the garage today who apologised to me for the un-diagnosed problem Re: my EAS fault.
They have dropped all the charges for the work that was done yesterday for fitting the 2 new height sensors and have since had another look at the EAS system and report the following problem to me.
1 The air suspension has no leaks
2 The system will be re-calibrated this weekend.
3 On start up of the engine the system starts to charge with air and compressor stops working as soon as system is charged.
4 At present the front suspension is raising too hight causing concern.
5 They now suspect this could be caused by a leak in the valve block?
6 There could also be a fault on the driver pack.
The garage informed me that this fault could have been present prior to them fitting the front air bag and there may have been a leak in the valve block but due to a leaky air bag the air loss may have been diverted through the air bag. They also inform me that now all the air bags are new and no leaks their may be a possibilty that air is exhausting from one of the valves.
There is also still the sympton of the compressor still starting every 15 seconds approx it seems like it thinks the system needs air when it does not, this is causing the compressor to over heat.
The fromt suspension set on normal ride height is far too hight it looks like it is running on high mode + about 4 inches.
since the new height sensors have been fitted the front seems to have stopped dancing or sinking.
They are doing more diagnostic work tomorrow.
I am just hoping they can come up with the answer to this problem.
I am also wondering igf there is a fault with the valve block is this repairable or the driver pack.
After my email to the garage they did reply with a sympathetic email apologising. I was gonna post the email on here but was not sure if it is allowed. If it is please let me know and I will do it as it may be able to explain things better than I have.

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Bloody bull**** about valve block. Set the suspension at the correct height and more than likely all your problems will go away. They obviously don't have the foggiest idea what they are on about. Valve blocks don't cause half the problems people say they do, valve blocks and driver packs that worked before, don't suddenly go tits up because you change an air bag. Tell them to get their act together. What was the suspension doing before you took it into them?

The point of Without Prejudice in correspondence.

Not to press the point, but the purpose in adding without prejudice is simply to allow for a diologue via written (or emailed ) correspondence between parties which allows for some degree of compromise to be expressed or negotiated without in any way admitting liability. Ant correspondence marked 'Without Prejudice' CAN be used in evidence with the author's permission. Use this to your advantage, you can create letters that make conciliatory noises, making you look good, at the same time driving things towards a favourable outcome from your end.

There is also still the sympton of the compressor still starting every 15 seconds approx it seems like it thinks the system needs air when it does not, this is causing the compressor to over heat.

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I had this on mine, cured by a valve block re-build.

Thanks Guys, I will keep you all posted of further developments.

Good eveing here is the latest updat on my EAS saga.
The garage called me today with an update and was informed they had taken the car tl Land Rover for a second opinion. They told me that Land rover could not diagnose the fault of the compressor running every 15 seconds, the front suspension raising too high.
Thy now inform me that the next step is to renew the valve block seals.
I'm doing well so far here is a list of the new parts fitted.
(1) 2 new rear Dunlop air springs
(2) 1 New front N/S air spring, O/S fine.
(3) 2 new front height sensors
And still its not working, I'm seriouslly considering converting to coils, really don't want to by what else can I do, no garage / dealer can seem to diagnose the problem.
Thanks
Mark
PS whilst i'm here on the subject of my busted EAS can anybody recommend a Land Rover EAS speacialist i Kent????

anorakmark said:

Good eveing here is the latest updat on my EAS saga.
The garage called me today with an update and was informed they had taken the car tl Land Rover for a second opinion. They told me that Land rover could not diagnose the fault of the compressor running every 15 seconds, the front suspension raising too high.
Thy now inform me that the next step is to renew the valve block seals.
I'm doing well so far here is a list of the new parts fitted.
(1) 2 new rear Dunlop air springs
(2) 1 New front N/S air spring, O/S fine.
(3) 2 new front height sensors
And still its not working, I'm seriouslly considering converting to coils, really don't want to by what else can I do, no garage / dealer can seem to diagnose the problem.
Thanks
Mark
PS whilst i'm here on the subject of my busted EAS can anybody recommend a Land Rover EAS speacialist i Kent????

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Main dealer not being able to diagnose doesn't surprise me one bit.

Have they actually calibrated the new height sensors? You mentioned that it was going to be done, but haven't mentioned whether it has been. This is an essential step. You can't just stick them on and expect them to give correct height information - they won't.

kooky_guy said:

Main dealer not being able to diagnose doesn't surprise me one bit.

Have they actually calibrated the new height sensors? You mentioned that it was going to be done, but haven't mentioned whether it has been. This is an essential step. You can't just stick them on and expect them to give correct height information - they won't.

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I have already said this, it is amazing that people ask, get answers, and take no bloody notice of them.