Turbocharger problem?

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highpeak

New Member
Posts
14
Hi all ,

I think I have a turbocharger problem on my 1999 Freelander 2.0DI.

On Friday I suddenly heard a whirring type noise from the engine, it was easily noticeable over the normal engine noise. Then today I was warming up the car on the drive before trying to replace the thermostat ( I think it may be faulty as the heater isn't working too well), anyway I didn't get onto that at all. Today the car was covered in frost and while gently revving the car I heard the noise again, then suddenly the engine started revving very fast and I tried to stop the engine with the ignition key. It kept revving after I switched it off and there was what seems to be white smoke coming from the exhaust all the time the engine was running, also it sounded more like a lawnmower than a car. After a few seconds the engine stopped by itself. I then noticed that oil was coming out of the exhaust.

I am not going to drive it or run it again until I can sort it out, as I guess it could be damaged further. Oh, there were also some funny noises coming from the engine when it was revving. Maybe that was the turbocharger disintegrating?

Any comments would be appreciated. Is this terminal or can I fix it? Thanks.
 
highpeak said:
Hi all ,

I think I have a turbocharger problem on my 1999 Freelander 2.0DI.

On Friday I suddenly heard a whirring type noise from the engine, it was easily noticeable over the normal engine noise. Then today I was warming up the car on the drive before trying to replace the thermostat ( I think it may be faulty as the heater isn't working too well), anyway I didn't get onto that at all. Today the car was covered in frost and while gently revving the car I heard the noise again, then suddenly the engine started revving very fast and I tried to stop the engine with the ignition key. It kept revving after I switched it off and there was what seems to be white smoke coming from the exhaust all the time the engine was running, also it sounded more like a lawnmower than a car. After a few seconds the engine stopped by itself. I then noticed that oil was coming out of the exhaust.

I am not going to drive it or run it again until I can sort it out, as I guess it could be damaged further. Oh, there were also some funny noises coming from the engine when it was revving. Maybe that was the turbocharger disintegrating?

Any comments would be appreciated. Is this terminal or can I fix it? Thanks.
Click to expand...


I've heard of turbo diesels lunching their engines this way. Apparently when the turbo oil seals fail catastrophically, hot engine oil can find it's way back into the engine through the inlet side & the engine will rev up & use this as fuel till the oil runs out. Check your engine oil level & see how much is left in the sump. If none, then your engine will be knackered.
 
Isn't this one of the problems one can have if the engine breather filter is blocked ????
 
Thanks for all your comments. I now know that the cause of the white smoke is oil passing the turbocharger seal. Also as suggested the excessive revving was caused by the engine running on the oil. Last night I started the car again, it runs and sounds fine, the only issue is the clouds of white smoke from the exhaust.

So Willo, where will I find the engine breather filter? Do you have a picture so I can locate it?

I understand blocked or split hoses around the turbocharger/intercooler can also cause my type of problem. Hopefully it's not really a blown oil seal on the turbocharger as it too cold and dark to start removing the turbo at the moment!

Thanks for all your help.

Highpeak
 
I remember this from my training back in the early 70's

White Smoke.

Lack of heat.
Normally means that the fuel injected into the cylinder is not burning correctly.

Engine/pump timing out
Fuel starvation to the pump causing the pumps timing not to operate correctly
Low engine compression
Water/petrol in the fuel
 
Go into search High peak been a lot documented on the filter also there is a new type of filter [upgrade] you will also find how to DIY its an easy job, and yes any small hole in the three inlet rubbers will cause all sorts of problems. . . . .i do feel that Willo has nailed your problem, let us all know outcome. . . . .un best oh luck:) :) :)
 
Hang on, am I missing the point here. The ignition was switched off so the fuel pump stop valve would have closed, plus the ECU would have stopped commanding fuel injection, yet the engine ran on. This clearly shows the engine was burning something else and lubrication oil in the inlet manifold is the likely conclusion. Assuming that the turbo oil seal is not the cause then how can the engine breather possibly lift oil into the induction tract, filter blocked or otherwise? The oil would have to be very hot to vapour that badly surely? Is the air filter okay. If it was blocked the engines thurst for air would have to be satisfied elsewhere

Whatever, luck was on your side my friend. There are a number of examples of engine runaway with this type of failure. If the oil supply into the indution manifold had been plentiful then the engine would have gone through the red line and, if you hadn't manged to slam it into fifth gear, plant the brake pedal and drop the clutch to stall it, the result would have been very interesting, from a distance..... Personally I would check that turbo regardless.
 
Hi all,
I took a look last night and I don't have the engine breather filter as mentioned by Willo on my vehicle. I guess that's because it's an L series desiel model. Tried looking for split hoses with a decent LED torch, can't see any so far but will look at weekend in the daylight. Can someone advise exactly which hoses I need to check for splits or blockages (ideally with a picture!!).

Oh, I checked the oil level and it has of course gone down quite a bit since I checked it last on Friday before all this happened.

Thanks for all you help.
 
AH!!!!1 The l series dont have that filter only td4, so we are looking at split turbo hoses, blocked air filter or fuel cut off bypassing,. . . . .or trouble with the turbo . . . . .
 
Hi, thanks for your comments.

I'm still trying to see if there is a split turbo hose, probably won't be sure until I can view the car during daylight hours (probably Saturday) the air filter element is pretty clean so I don't believe it's that. What do you mean by fuel cut off bypassing?

It appears that there are the following hoses connected to the turbocharger, or I am missing something;
1) the oil feed braided hose with banjo type connection onto the top of the turbo
2) the output hose from the turbo
3) the boost pressure sensing pipe

I guess I am supposed to be looking at these hoses for splits/blockages, correct?
Do I need to look at pipes to/from the intercooler for the same issues, or are they irrelevant to this white smoke problem?

If the turbo is crackered is there a way to tell without actually removing it?

Thanks
 
Fuel cut off bypassing. When the key is turned off to stop the engine a valve (called the fuel cut off valve), which is part of the fuel pump is closed. This stops fuel flow to the engine and causes a flame out. The engine then stops. If a fault develops where this valve fails to stop the flow of fuel, ie it is bypassed, then the engine could continue to run. The problem as a possible reason for this failure is that the L series uses an electronically controlled fuel pump so the stop command should also instuct the ECU to stop the engine by other means. A problem with the fuel cut off valve wouldn't cause the engine to race without throttle demand.

If oil is being introduced into the induction path then the engine will burn this oil instead of diesel. This is completely outside the control of the fuel pump and the ECU. If sufficent oil is being introduced then the engine will race and could rev up to the point of destruction, ie literally explode. You were obviously lucky.

Familiarisation. On the turbo, the banjo pipe is the oil feed to the turbo bearing, there is a return pipe to the sump on the underside of the turbo. A pipe from the air filter, via the mass air flow sensor connects to the end of the turbo. This is the compressor wheel induction port. Out of the side of this assembly is another pipe that leads down to the front of the car and enters the intercooler, a radiator type component, that cools the compressed air the turbo has produced. This is the compressor discharge port. On the other side of the turbo is the exhaust induction to the side of the turbine wheel and the discharge from the end, which carries on to the exhaust system.

If the turbo compressor oil seal has failed then high pressure oil is being introduced into the compressor wheel assembly. This is then blown into the engine, via the intercooler and the problems you have experienced start.

Alternatively the oil could be getting into the induction path through the oil breather pipe that comes off the top of the head of the engine and connects to the pipe between the mass air flow sensor and the turbo. This is unlikely unless there is a serious problem with the internal oil pathways in the engine meaning the oil can not return to the sump. I doubt this is the case.

To investigate. Remove both the pipe from the mass air flow sensor and the pipe to the intercooler, from the turbo assembly. If the pipe to the intercooler has lots of oil in it (some oil can sometimes be found but it shouldn't be dripping out if you know what I mean) then we are confirming the problem. If there appears to be a similar amount of oil in the pipe from the mass air flow sensor then the source must be from the oil breather. If the pipe from the mass air flow sensor is mainly clear of oil then its the turbo oil seal. I would suspect this is the most likely cause.

To fix. The turbo is normally an unserviceable item and you will need to remove it and get a part exchanged unit. Prior to fitting you will need to remove the intercooler and pipework right up to the induction manifold and clean out the oil with thinners / detergents etc.

Once complete I suspect the ECU setup may need attending to, in order to calibrate it to the new turbo performance. I'm not sure, but it is possible the waste gate (device that stops the turbo over reving) may need calibrating as well, although it is probably calibrated in the factory. Both these jobs should be entrusted to an expert.

Unless you feel confident in doing this work I would suggest you get professional help. The condition of the engine may need to be assest to make sure it wasn't damaged during the racing period, it depends on how high the revs go up to.

I wish you luck and hope this helps.
 
Darmain said:
Fuel cut off bypassing. When the key is turned off to stop the engine a valve (called the fuel cut off valve), which is part of the fuel pump is closed. This stops fuel flow to the engine and causes a flame out. The engine then stops. If a fault develops where this valve fails to stop the flow of fuel, ie it is bypassed, then the engine could continue to run. The problem as a possible reason for this failure is that the L series uses an electronically controlled fuel pump so the stop command should also instuct the ECU to stop the engine by other means. A problem with the fuel cut off valve wouldn't cause the engine to race without throttle demand.

If oil is being introduced into the induction path then the engine will burn this oil instead of diesel. This is completely outside the control of the fuel pump and the ECU. If sufficent oil is being introduced then the engine will race and could rev up to the point of destruction, ie literally explode. You were obviously lucky.

Familiarisation. On the turbo, the banjo pipe is the oil feed to the turbo bearing, there is a return pipe to the sump on the underside of the turbo. A pipe from the air filter, via the mass air flow sensor connects to the end of the turbo. This is the compressor wheel induction port. Out of the side of this assembly is another pipe that leads down to the front of the car and enters the intercooler, a radiator type component, that cools the compressed air the turbo has produced. This is the compressor discharge port. On the other side of the turbo is the exhaust induction to the side of the turbine wheel and the discharge from the end, which carries on to the exhaust system.

If the turbo compressor oil seal has failed then high pressure oil is being introduced into the compressor wheel assembly. This is then blown into the engine, via the intercooler and the problems you have experienced start.

Alternatively the oil could be getting into the induction path through the oil breather pipe that comes off the top of the head of the engine and connects to the pipe between the mass air flow sensor and the turbo. This is unlikely unless there is a serious problem with the internal oil pathways in the engine meaning the oil can not return to the sump. I doubt this is the case.

To investigate. Remove both the pipe from the mass air flow sensor and the pipe to the intercooler, from the turbo assembly. If the pipe to the intercooler has lots of oil in it (some oil can sometimes be found but it shouldn't be dripping out if you know what I mean) then we are confirming the problem. If there appears to be a similar amount of oil in the pipe from the mass air flow sensor then the source must be from the oil breather. If the pipe from the mass air flow sensor is mainly clear of oil then its the turbo oil seal. I would suspect this is the most likely cause.

To fix. The turbo is normally an unserviceable item and you will need to remove it and get a part exchanged unit. Prior to fitting you will need to remove the intercooler and pipework right up to the induction manifold and clean out the oil with thinners / detergents etc.

Once complete I suspect the ECU setup may need attending to, in order to calibrate it to the new turbo performance. I'm not sure, but it is possible the waste gate (device that stops the turbo over reving) may need calibrating as well, although it is probably calibrated in the factory. Both these jobs should be entrusted to an expert.

Unless you feel confident in doing this work I would suggest you get professional help. The condition of the engine may need to be assest to make sure it wasn't damaged during the racing period, it depends on how high the revs go up to.

I wish you luck and hope this helps.
Click to expand...



Gulp.. I got more information from this, than reading the cd/Manual !!!

Well done!!;)
 
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