Towing a Defender on an A-Frame?

Anyone any experience of towing a Defender 110 on an A-Frame? Are
there weight requirements of the tow vehicle, legistative gotchas, and
what do I need to add to the tow vehicle and the Landy to make it all
work? I'd like to be able to tow the Defender behind the Pinz,
Defender weighs about 2 tonnes, Pinz about 2.4 tonnes but has
excellent stability due to extra wheels. Pinz has a NATO hitch.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

its illegal mate.
a-frame recovery is strictly for emergencies only. a 200 mile trip dont count.

"Ian Rawlings" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Anyone any experience of towing a Defender 110 on an A-Frame? Are
> there weight requirements of the tow vehicle, legistative gotchas, and
> what do I need to add to the tow vehicle and the Landy to make it all
> work? I'd like to be able to tow the Defender behind the Pinz,
> Defender weighs about 2 tonnes, Pinz about 2.4 tonnes but has
> excellent stability due to extra wheels. Pinz has a NATO hitch.

Practical problem: most A-frames have daft little wheels and tyres, and
you'd be overloading them to hell with the weight of the front of a 110.

Practical/legal: you'd be towing an unbraked 2-ton trailer. No idea how
good Pinz brakes are, but they may not be good enough. Even if it was a
mackled-up braked A-frame with over-run brakes, they'd probably be tiny.
I've heard of (but never seen) ingenious devices to apply the brakes of
towed vehicles with wonderful levers and so on, but I doubt if they meet
any sort of standard.

Apart from the situation of genuine breakdown recovery (and I'd guess
magistrates would see through taking the rotor arm off so you could
claim it had just broken down), the 110 plus A-frame would be officially
a trailer, and trailers don't just need brakes, they now need brakes
that comply with some European standard or other if they weigh over
750kg; plus all the requirements for lights that you could probably
achieve with a lighting board and putting the 110's side lights on.

So, I'm afraid a trailer's the only way, assuming, as discussed in the
recent trailer thread, that you could find something to show the Pinz is
rated by its makers (not just by its owner) to tow 2.5 tonnes or so.
And also (with all due respect, not knowing the OP personally) that he
is happy to tow a trailer and legally permitted to do so (group whatever
it is on his licence).


--
Kevin Poole
**Use current month and year to reply (e.g. [email protected])***
Car Transport by Tiltbed Trailer - based near Derby

<snip>
>
> So, I'm afraid a trailer's the only way, assuming, as discussed in the
> recent trailer thread, that you could find something to show the Pinz is
> rated by its makers (not just by its owner) to tow 2.5 tonnes or so. And
> also (with all due respect, not knowing the OP personally) that he is
> happy to tow a trailer and legally permitted to do so (group whatever it
> is on his licence).
>

well, the towing spec of a 710 (4x4) is 5000kg on road and 1500kg offroad

Si

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 08:41:57 +0100, "Si Kellow"
<[email protected]> wrote:

><snip>
>>
>> So, I'm afraid a trailer's the only way, assuming, as discussed in the
>> recent trailer thread, that you could find something to show the Pinz is
>> rated by its makers (not just by its owner) to tow 2.5 tonnes or so. And
>> also (with all due respect, not knowing the OP personally) that he is
>> happy to tow a trailer and legally permitted to do so (group whatever it
>> is on his licence).
>>
>
>well, the towing spec of a 710 (4x4) is 5000kg on road and 1500kg offroad

Still doesn't solve the problem that under the current legislation you
need overrun brakes for any trailer over 750kg and power/coupled
brakes for any trailer over 3500kg. A-frames are a grey area of the
law, and the consensus seems to be that an a-frame towed vehicle
counts as a trailer and not as emergency recovery (ie like a rope or
rigid pole).

Alex

I
>Practical problem: most A-frames have daft little wheels and tyres, and
>you'd be overloading them to hell with the weight of the front of a
>110.


A frames don't have wheels at all !!!!

Towing dollies do

You can get A frames with a braked headstock that operates the brake
pedal on the trailed vehicle via a remote linkage.

It is the slow speed manoeuvres that will cause you problems when using
an A frame. And as for trying to tow over soft ground you might as well
forget it as the towed vehicles wheels will dig in and will never go the
way you want them to. Bit like a shopping trolley.

A frames work well with smaller cars behind motor homes etc. but towing
a 4x4 can be less than fun.

Aside from the weight a towing dolly is out unless you want to remove
the propshaft or fit FWH to the 110.


--
Marc Draper

"Marc Draper" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> A frames don't have wheels at all !!!!
>
> Towing dollies do
>

Yep, sorry: I was conflating the two.

> You can get A frames with a braked headstock that operates the brake
> pedal on the trailed vehicle via a remote linkage.
>

Which may help with the practicalities of a breakdown-type recovery, but
still doesn't make it a compliant trailer.

> It is the slow speed manoeuvres that will cause you problems when
> using an A frame. And as for trying to tow over soft ground you might
> as well forget it as the towed vehicles wheels will dig in and will
> never go the way you want them to. Bit like a shopping trolley.
>
And the sheer bloody misery of tight manoeuvring a dolly, with or
without a vehicle on it!

> A frames work well with smaller cars behind motor homes etc. but
> towing a 4x4 can be less than fun.

Isn't the Aixam about the only "car" you can legally tow with one?
>

--
Kevin Poole
**Use current month and year to reply (e.g. [email protected])***
Car Transport by Tiltbed Trailer - based near Derby

On 2006-04-14, Marc Draper <[email protected]> wrote:

> It is the slow speed manoeuvres that will cause you problems when using
> an A frame. And as for trying to tow over soft ground you might as well
> forget it as the towed vehicles wheels will dig in and will never go the
> way you want them to. Bit like a shopping trolley.

Indeed, and I can't reverse a trailer to save my life.. Chances are
though the landy would be running so can be disconnected and driven.
I'm thinking of a few situations where I want both the Pinz and Landy
to be somewhere.

It's probably best to get a car transporter trailer, given the space
in my garden I'd have to park one of the cars on the trailer but as
long as I take the weight off the trailer's wheels and prop it
appropriately (depending on trailer) then it ought to be OK.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

Ian Rawlings wrote:

|| It's probably best to get a car transporter trailer

Get one, and double your number of friends overnight. Mine is the only
reason I have a social life.

BTW, you can learn to reverse it. If I can, anyone can.

--
Rich
==============================

I don't approve of signatures, so I don't have one.

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 17:33:15 +0100, "Richard Brookman"
<[email protected]> scribbled the following nonsense:

>Ian Rawlings wrote:
>
>|| It's probably best to get a car transporter trailer
>
>Get one, and double your number of friends overnight. Mine is the only
>reason I have a social life.
>
>BTW, you can learn to reverse it. If I can, anyone can.

I could not reverse a trailer till I got a landrover, low box makes it
all so easy!
--

Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Chairman, Newsletter Editor and Webmaster
Green Lane Association (GLASS) Financial Director
101 Ambi, undergoing camper conversion www.simoni.co.uk
1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an offer!
Suzuki SJ410 (Wife's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery
1994 200 TDi Discovery body shell, being bobbed and modded.....

"Simon Isaacs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 17:33:15 +0100, "Richard Brookman"
> <[email protected]> scribbled the following nonsense:
<snip>
> I could not reverse a trailer till I got a landrover, low box makes it
> all so easy!

My dad made me learn about reversing trailers when I was about 8 and we were
collecting the hay off the fields. I'd drive the car and trailer from stack
to stack, whilst Dad loaded it. Then I overshot one.

"you can back it up cos you went past it" was his helpful response

Well I did it, and 23 years later trailers of any length don't bother me at
all

Si

In message <[email protected]>, Marc Draper
<[email protected]> writes
>I
>>Practical problem: most A-frames have daft little wheels and tyres,
>>and you'd be overloading them to hell with the weight of the front of
>>a 110.
>
>
>A frames don't have wheels at all !!!!
>
>Towing dollies do
>
>You can get A frames with a braked headstock that operates the brake
>pedal on the trailed vehicle via a remote linkage.
>
>It is the slow speed manoeuvres that will cause you problems when using
>an A frame. And as for trying to tow over soft ground you might as well
>forget it as the towed vehicles wheels will dig in and will never go
>the way you want them to. Bit like a shopping trolley.
>
>A frames work well with smaller cars behind motor homes etc. but towing
>a 4x4 can be less than fun.
>
>Aside from the weight a towing dolly is out unless you want to remove
>the propshaft or fit FWH to the 110.
>
>
Aren't A-frames only legal for breakdown recovery? Most people tow their
cars on a small trailer behind their motor homes.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

> Aren't A-frames only legal for breakdown recovery? Most people tow their
> cars on a small trailer behind their motor homes.
> --
As I understand it from a fully qualified recovery person you can only
use if vehicle is in a condition where it would pass an MOT, about the
only people still using are digger drivers and sugar beet harvesters.
If a vehicle is a breakdown recovery it should not be in contact with
the road. So e ses!