Torque Converter Freelander 2

Afternoon everyone.

Freelander 2 08 2.2 Diesel Automatic

Fairly violent Shuddering at point of changing gear has been identified by specialist as possible torque converter issue. I have been driving around the issue by lifting off or forcing a kick down. The mechanic has said nothing is imminently going to fail but ultimately to replace the part is drop the gear box out then might as well replace the whole unit (gearbox & converter) He is willing to fit a box supplied by me (I estimate 500 to purchase) but with no guarantee and charge around 1000 in labor. Or supply a reconditioned box for around 2500 plus 1000 to fit with a guarantee . Obviously the second option is eye watering at roughly 50% of the resale value.
Just wondering if anyone else has encountered this issue with an auto box. And what peoples thoughts are about the repair options and pricing i've been given. I'm wondering if there might be a more frugal option through a transmission specialist.
I use the vehicle daily in a construction environment and it's been ideal for this purpose. I have already spent a fair bit on maintenance in 8 months (Haldex oil/filter, new glow plugs, battery, tyres, full service) In its current condition I cant sell it so thinking I should repair it and keep it for the long haul.

Can you post us a video of it doing it to give us a better idea of what its doing? Is it undrivable?

Stv123 said:

Can you post us a video of it doing it to give us a better idea of what its doing? Is it undrivable?

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Hi, I'm not sure it would show up in a video very clearly. Its certainly driveable and i've been living with it for six months. The specialist hasn't put pressure in this sense it needs fixing immediately. But I cant imagine over time it can be good for the drivetrain so need to deal with it eventually. It's also not sellable with a fault like this and I need a reliable 4x4 for work being self employed. I think being "stuck" with it is probably a bit unfair on the old girl as I really rate it as a workhorse, it's brilliant offroad and ive never got bogged.
I will try to give you a better description - around the 1800rpm mark under gentle acceleration, where its straddling a gear change and about to change gear the vehicle starts to shudder quite violently. If you lift off it stops or make it kick down it stops. Or you can also knock the stick across into sport so it changes the revs and sorts itself out. So you can drive around the issue.
The same thing happens if you rev the engine out hard and towards the top of the range - at the point of changing gear- the vehicle begins to shudder. The gearbox itself and the gear changes seem to work seamlessly in auto and semi auto. The mechanics suggestion of torque converter seems to make logic, I understand the part itself is cheap but the whole gearbox has to come out and he's suggesting I may as well replace the whole unit. Cheers for looking at the post.

A mate has a V6 Mazda Tribute which was shuddering.

He took it into a garage for them to look at. They changed the plugs and a couple of coil packs and said the engine was fine. The shuddering appeared a bit better but still there. The garage told him it would be the torque converter and it'll need replacing to fix it.

That was a little while ago. Last week the car had a massive episode on his way to work - totally rough, sounding like a tank and smoke coming out from under the bonnet - and he immediately pulled into a car park and stopped. He lifted the bonnet had a look, nothing "to obvious" but a spark plug looked to be "at the wrong sort of angle" anyway - like a twat he started it up again and it fired the spark plug across the car park.

(luckily) Just a new spark plug (and coil pack I believe) - no more juddering and the car is running better than it has in ages.

Gaud knows what the garage actually did to the car, whether they changed the plugs, whether they didn't tighten this one, who knows.

I know your motor doesn't use spark plugs, but just a cautionary tale about a garage saying a new torque converter is needed to fix shuddering when it isn't.

Ever since I got mine it juddered when changing gear under light load. I was very concerned the auto box was on its way out until I saw a YouTube video of a guy in America’s video of a similar issue. Thing is his was a manual, but it sounded identical (hence me asking for a video) Last year I had my turbo replaced and its never done it since? Turbo was changed because of a bad oil leak.

I can't see why you'd change the box as well - either a cheap one from a breakers that will likely be in worse condition, or an expensive one to fix no faults?

Why would the garage even suggest that unless they didn't really know what the problem was and was just trying to cover their arses by trying to get you to change as much as possible to increase the likely hood of the problem being fixed?

I dunno if it is quicker/cheaper to replace a converter/box unit than just the converter.

GrumpyGel said:

I can't see why you'd change the box as well - either a cheap one from a breakers that will likely be in worse condition, or an expensive one to fix no faults?

Why would the garage even suggest that unless they didn't really know what the problem was and was just trying to cover their arses by trying to get you to change as much as possible to increase the likely hood of the problem being fixed?

I dunno if it is quicker/cheaper to replace a converter/box unit than just the converter.

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I guess his angle is 1000 quid in labor to drop the box out and change the torque converter, put it all back together and the problem hasn't been resolved. He's certainly a trustworthy fella and is openly saying he cant really be 100% on a diagnostic like this. But I'm with you that it seems like the actual gearbox doesn't need replacing - maybe a gamble worth taking given the cost of changing the box as well.

Could be an engine misfire fault and nothing to do with the auto box or converter.?

Stv123 said:

Ever since I got mine it juddered when changing gear under light load. I was very concerned the auto box was on its way out until I saw a YouTube video of a guy in America’s video of a similar issue. Thing is his was a manual, but it sounded identical (hence me asking for a video) Last year I had my turbo replaced and its never done it since? Turbo was changed because of a bad oil leak.

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That's interesting, the turbo on mine has a 'characteristic' in that it makes a chattering noise when it comes off boost. When it was serviced the actuator was lubricated and it resolved the noise short term but it then returned in a couple of weeks.

The cost of labour made more sense to put an exchange turbo on that is guaranteed

Mud Plugger 6 9 said:

I guess his angle is 1000 quid in labor to drop the box out and change the torque converter, put it all back together and the problem hasn't been resolved.

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£1k seems excessive for labour.
There's no need to change the box, if the TC has been identified as the issue. Has the box fluid been changed? That's the first thing to do.
If there's no improvement, then you've 2 options available, after the fluid change.
1st and best, but most expensive option would be to have the TC replaced.

2nd would be to put a tube of Dr Tranny's Shudder Fix, and see if that fixes it. It's not the best option, but it'll work to keep it usable, while saving for a TC or a replacement vehicle.

Or third opinion wait to see if it gets worse. If it’s something else it might it might show itself. Spending £1000 on a “it might be “ seems a bit expensive.

Nodge68 said:

£1k seems excessive for labour.
There's no need to change the box, if the TC has been identified as the issue. Has the box fluid been changed? That's the first thing to do.
If there's no improvement, then you've 2 options available, after the fluid change.
1st and best, but most expensive option would be to have the TC replaced.

2nd would be to put a tube of Dr Tranny's Shudder Fix, and see if that fixes it. It's not the best option, but it'll work to keep it usable, while saving for a TC or a replacement vehicle.

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I haven't changed the fluid, figured it was too far gone to be effective. But in retrospect I'll get it flushed and changed as a starting point. Hadn't heard of the of Dr Trannys shudder fix so will whack some of that in also. Cheers for the tip.

Have you checked for fault codes on the engine and gearbox?

Transmission fluid should have been Changed 3 years ago. If you can’t be bothered maintaining it don’t be surprised when it fails. Be lucky if there is any in there.

Nodge68 said:

£1k seems excessive for labour.
There's no need to change the box, if the TC has been identified as the issue. Has the box fluid been changed? That's the first thing to do.
If there's no improvement, then you've 2 options available, after the fluid change.
1st and best, but most expensive option would be to have the TC replaced.

2nd would be to put a tube of Dr Tranny's Shudder Fix, and see if that fixes it. It's not the best option, but it'll work to keep it usable, while saving for a TC or a replacement vehicle.

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Update. Transmission has been flushed and fluid replaced, added the Shudder fix. And..... its driving like a buttery magic carpet, seamless shifts and no shudder. Thank you very much for sharing the knowledge. Cheers

Stv123 said:

Transmission fluid should have been Changed 3 years ago. If you can’t be bothered maintaining it don’t be surprised when it fails. Be lucky if there is any in there.

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Apparently there was some in there (albeit very dirty) The issue seems to stem from Land Rover stating the fluid can go 150k. Whereas the gearbox manufacturer states 75k. Had I not been a member of this forum and pointed in the right direction I would be none the wiser.

What came out of it when you changed the fluid?

My service schedule says 10 years or 150k which sounds excessive to me. I bottled out and changed it at 100k.

Stv123 said:

What came out of it when you changed the fluid?

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I didn't witness it, I paid for a specialist to flush the system fully. They just told me it was very dirty. Interestingly they claim they often get good results from this process